Acoustic guitar help!

[Benreturns]

My Acoustic guitar sounds like dead dogsh*t!

I am using a Samson C01 into a Tascam488MkII (using the portastudio's pre-amps) and have played around with various positions of micing. I compress on the way in (Behringer compressor) and cant find the right combo of settings. I use the noise gate on the compressor to get rid of background hum or my chair squeaking ... whatever, but cant seem to find the right combo of positions of the above to give my acoustic lead patterns that bright flurrishing sound which is clear and distinctive, but without dominating the mix(like when i push my faders up to compensate for lack of quality on the channel in question...)

It just sounds 'tinny' like BAD home recording. Recorded through a sock or somthing.
Help!

 

[gtrman_66]

Ummm....I am not trying to be mean or harsh here, but in all seriousness, with the signal chain you are running, I would expect it to sound exactly like what you just described. I would first dump the compressor out of the chain, compress and gate at mixdown if you need to. Try pointing the mic at about the 12th fret or wherever the neck joins to the body of the guitar about 12" out and see if that is a good starting point.
If you have an sm-57 or 58 around, try it also, you might be better of that way.

Good luck.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

My Acoustic guitar sounds like dead dogsh*t!

I am using a Samson C01 into a Tascam488MkII (using the portastudio's pre-amps) and have played around with various positions of micing. I compress on the way in (Behringer compressor) and cant find the right combo of settings. I use the noise gate on the compressor to get rid of background hum or my chair squeaking ... whatever, but cant seem to find the right combo of positions of the above to give my acoustic lead patterns that bright flurrishing sound which is clear and distinctive, but without dominating the mix(like when i push my faders up to compensate for lack of quality on the channel in question...)

It just sounds 'tinny' like BAD home recording. Recorded through a sock or somthing.
Help!

The samson CO1 was the first condensor mic I owned and I hated it. If you're not in the business of buying a new mic then by all means take a look at the big pinned thread at the top of the mic forum. Harvey goes into mic positioning for different instruments in some depth, perhaps you'll be a little more patient than me and find you can get a good sound from the samson.

I'm not usually one to bash cheap gear at all as I know it's all many of us have to work with. I really disliked that mic though.

Also have you tried tracking without the compressor? If you're overdoing it with that it might make your guitar tracks sound a bit lifeless. I only ever seem to use very moderate settings if I use compression at all on acoustic guitar. It's also a lot easier to track the guitar and then add compression (if needed) at mixdown. I'm unsure if your setup allows this.

Good luck with it anyway.

 

[mshilarious]

The noise gate is a bad idea. Try to find a quieter room & chair instead.

If it sounds tinny, try the mic off the end of the guitar, aimed back at the bridge. I'm describing this badly; Harvey has a good explanation in the giant thread.

 

[In Tune Audio]

Could also be the guitar or the room your recording in.


Is it a decent guitar, new strings, all that sort of jazz. That and even some high end guitars don't record as nice as others. May sound great live, but crappy recorded.

How your room sound sonically. That can have a big effect on acoustic.


Both of these things could make an acoustic guitar sound tiny as you described.

 

[Dani Pace]

The CO1 is always going to sound tinny, no matter what you do, its a trebel response mic and just dosent have thr richness you may be looking for. It's a decent mic for cymbals or other trebel sounds but lacks the range to use for an all purpose mic. Experience has taught me that certain mics just simply work better for certain sounds. The only way to find out for sure which mic will work best for you is to experiment, you might try a SM57 straight in to your preamp and save any effects for the mixing. Also you might try useing 2 tracks for the guitar, one miced and one direct line in (assumeing you have a pickup in your guitar,) or two mics, one about the 12th fret and a second one behind and slightly below the sound hole. And for that bright sound make sure you have new (or almost new) strings, they just have a brighter sound to start with, a thin stiff pick might help too. The variables are endless, keep trying, you'll find one that works.

 

[gordone]

1)Doesn't the C01 require phantom power?
2)If you are going mic->compressor->pres on the Tascam, you're doing it all wrong.
3)Get rid of the compressor
4)Try going mic->pres on the tascam. You can add compression later on IFF (If and only if) it needs it
5)Dump the noise gate.

What kind of guitar is it? What kind of room are you in?

 

[CHILD]

I never compress until after recording, digitally, and then even very little, just enough to beat down the spikes. I find that compression can make the delicate individual notes blur together.

Get you mic as close to the twelth fret as possible, within four inches. Add another mic, and a pic up, blend them together with a mixer to get a good ambient sound from the mic, but power from the pick up.

Use you compressor and gate for live shows though.

Post-record (software) eq took me along time to figure out. Dont underestimate its importance. Usually mic'ed sound needs a mid range boost, and maybe a little bass.

Hear are some 'mic-only' recordings that needed re-eq'ing. And they got it.

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/wyman2

 

[Benreturns]

Ah ha good response - Thanks y'all!

Firstly, I have been looking into a new mic for Ohhhhh so long now but try as I might things get in the way financially. I am however getting either a Rode NT1A or an SE2200 in the near future. This was originally for vocal purposes, but ahh... i see a pattern emerging...

I have been told the Tascam488MKII Pre's are adequate enough for my needs (yes they have phantom power) but a new mic might deserve a new outboard mic pre with compression and EQ already on it. Focusrite Trackmaster anyone? Yay or nay? Complimentary to my recording chain or big waste of money (£150 ish)?

Now im getting confused here... i have read (and indeed - been told myself) to Compress stuff on the way IN to the recorder. I do try try to use soft settings but I find I need the gate as the C01 picks up intake of breath and everything... Would you not reccomend keeping the gate but toning down the severity of how its used.

My room is not treated hardly at all, i have a makshift vocal area under a high shelf with thick carpet draped on all sides creating a box. I cant record my acoustic here though. The rest of room is actually quite cluttered with furniture, bookshelves, junk in the corners. I have encouraged it to be full of stuff as I believe this will cut down on unwated reverberations? Am i going wrong here?

As for positioning the mic - i have freedom to experiment so thats one good thing. I have tried a few ways but i will now try with less compression/gate (or none at all)

I think the signal chain might be a big problem. Anyone for those mic models I suggested?

PS: I have took in my guitar to the shop today for a general clean up (Polished, electrics looked at - its a semi acoustic- and a new set of strings)

 

[In Tune Audio]

Well it sound like your on the right track. Your thinking about things, and getting your guitar cleaned up will help. If the guitar doesn't sound good in the first place, it won't sound good recorded.

I have a pair of NT1's. Not the NT1a, the originals. And I liked them alot. They were very versatile, and a great mic for the price. It wasn't an amazing mic, but it worked well on most applications. There was thread about them a few months ago you might want to search for. I haven't used the other mic you asked about.


As far as room reflections. You said you have a cluttered space, and that that might help with reflections. It all depends on what in that space. If its cardboard, or reflective materials, it will make things worse! If its mattress or blankets, it might help.


As far as compression goes, people say to compress on the way in so that you can get a louder and even signal going during tracking. However, the problem with doing it this way, is once it is recorded with compression, you can't undo it. So if your not 100% sure what your doing, its better to do it at mixdown, so that you can make changes.

Compression will cause a higher noise floor, because low volume material will be made louder. But from the sound of it, you are over compressing, if you are getting that much noise. Hence, why it was suggested to compress after.


Hope this helps, keep persevering, it will pay off.

 

[lotuscent]

get rid of the compressor and noisegate. period. they absolutely do not belong in that signal chain.

you can get all kinds of cool results using various mics/positions for various flavors... here is the key - what flavor for what song? what is the rest of the instrumentation? should the guitar sound big and up front or tucked in a corner of the mix?

try getting a good, dry representation of your playing, if you need to compress, do it in the mix, but i would pay more attention to eq first...

then you might have a better idea of what you want in the initial tracking phase. it is the long way around, but really, experience is what teaches.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Unfortunately we are more limited here in the UK as to what's available to us and how much things cost.

The studio projetcs B1 is a highly regarded budget mic and the VTB-1 preamp (also made by studio projects) gets some favourable comments on this board, it's budget gear but this chain will do a very respectable job of tracking both vocals and acoustic guitar if you learn how to use them correctly. There are several mics and pres in this price range but the reason I mention these is because of this offer at digital village:

http://www.dv247.com/invt/18659

This is a phenomenal deal, at £140 ($260) for both I'm sure even our friends in the US would be impressed.

Something you must consider is whether you're able to bypass the pres on your Tascam (sorry, I'm not familiar with the unit). If not, buying a better preamp would be a complete waste of money.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Sorry, I have to agree with all of the above. You have the wrong mic into the wrong pre, and then you have added compression and gating, which will make it worse, much worse. First, acoustic guitar rarely benefits from compression, and gates are mostly for decreasing bleed on multiple drum mics, or hiding the hum from a noisy guitar/amp combo. Secondly, the Samsom is waay less than ideal as an acoustic guitar mic. First, get one decent mic and put it on the 12th fret. Try Octava MC012, Marshall MXL 603, Studio Projects B-1, Marshall MXL V67, or for that matter, a Behringer B-5. All of those are under $100. Then- don't mess with it! Effects will not make your guitar sound better. And- change your own strings- at least every 20-30 hours of play, if not more often. Recording acoustic guitar is simple. You put a good mic into a good preamp in a good room onto a great guitar that is played well. Remember, I said it was simple, not easy, and not cheap. Complex processing will not help if you didn't have those bases covered in the beginning. GI-GO-Richie

 

[Tileguy]

Onboard electronics with the ability to control individual string volume is a real plus.This of course is just one reason so many companies coustic sales have increased dramatically in the A/E realm.
The days of the old barcus berry are gone,The days of the onboard electronics suite with ind string control,equalization and even phasing are here.
Forget about the Mic for now and Look at a Nice Taylor
Add it to a nice home improvement loan.Fix up the house,get a new Git