Acoustic Designer as profession...

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pandamonk

pandamonk

Well-known member
Right, I'm starting up a business where i cover all the main areas of the music biz i know and am interested with and this includes Acoustics.

I'm also using this business as a project for college, and mentioned about acoustics today, and my lecturer said that i simply don't know enough about acoustics to make a business out of it.

I understand that I am no expert, and have not been educated professionally, but i do wish to incorporate, at least at a basic level, acoustics into my business.

I'm calling out to all the pros that come to these forums, Ethan, Rod, Rick(yes i consider you a pro:D), Knightfly, John Sayers, etc. to bombard me with as much in depth information as you can think of on acoustics! Obviously I'm asking a lot of you guys, especially without offering anything in the way of payment, but if you could at least direct me to the right places, or gradually post things on the subject when you have the time, it'd help hugely. Especially with paperwork for my project. I'm looking for calculations etc too, as i really need to understand all this, even to offer acoustics at a basic level.

I know all the things you tell everyone who comes here, and as commented, i have listened and am now offering that great advice to the newcomers, etc. But now I need something more. So nows your time to really show me what you're made of! :D

Thanks guys, and i understand if you might not wanna give away the secrets of your trade to someone who will become competition(although i doubt I'll offer much competition with you guys).

Lee
 
Hey Pandamonk- I think it's a great idea. I think there is actually a growing need for real acousticians. Obviously the market is hot for home studios and home recording in general.

There is an even greater market for all those who are turning rooms in their homes into home theaters with huge screens and surround sound systems. Most of these people are clueless, thinking the more they spend on gear, the better things will sound. This market will probably be your real money maker.

Although I'm nowhere near "pro" when it comes to acoustics, I've been researching acoustics as much as I can in my spare time. The nature of acoustics is rather tricky when it comes to the fine details. Although you can apply some general knowledge (like using bass traps, etc.), the reality is that every situation will be different.

The nature of acoustics is a science, and you need to understand what the all the crazy calculations mean, then apply experience, common sense, and mostly your ears as well as the ears of your clients.

I really think you should consider a professional engineering school if you're that serious about it. Meanwhile, you can dive into the Internet and read all you can.

One website I can point you to is http://www.rpginc.com

or on your side of the pond- http://www.rpg-europe.co.uk/

Best of luck to you. Rez
 
RezN8 said:
Hey Pandamonk- I think it's a great idea. I think there is actually a growing need for real acousticians. Obviously the market is hot for home studios and home recording in general.

There is an even greater market for all those who are turning rooms in their homes into home theaters with huge screens and surround sound systems. Most of these people are clueless, thinking the more they spend on gear, the better things will sound. This market will probably be your real money maker.

Although I'm nowhere near "pro" when it comes to acoustics, I've been researching acoustics as much as I can in my spare time. The nature of acoustics is rather tricky when it comes to the fine details. Although you can apply some general knowledge (like using bass traps, etc.), the reality is that every situation will be different.

The nature of acoustics is a science, and you need to understand what the all the crazy calculations mean, then apply experience, common sense, and mostly your ears as well as the ears of your clients.

I really think you should consider a professional engineering school if you're that serious about it. Meanwhile, you can dive into the Internet and read all you can.

One website I can point you to is http://www.rpginc.com

or on your side of the pond- http://www.rpg-europe.co.uk/

Best of luck to you. Rez
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot Rez. I consider myself to be in the same boat as you, although i don't know at what level you are at. I research acoustics in my spare time, and i just feel that there's a hell of a lot more out there that i don't know/don't understand yet.

I know how to calculate a lot of things, like RT60 etc, but i wanna take this a lot more in depth, and i do see that there is a huge market, especially in this area. There are hundreds of bands around my area, and just one shitty studio. I'm building my studio, but it will in no way be professional, although better than the other one, and I'm sure that a lot of people in bands are gonna start building home studios. I know a few that have already, but no one seems to know about acoustics more than hanging egg crates/egg crate foam. They're beginning to understand about gear, but I'm sure once they buy all the dead expensive equipment and still can't get the results they want, they will look for answers and that's where I'll step in.

And the engineering school is a great idea, but I'm already going through college just now, and am sick of education. I wanna get out and working, and also out of debt. I can go into a uni course where i will get taught acoustics as a module, but i doubt this will be to the standard i could learn here, mainly 'cause there's a hell of a lot more than acoustics in the course.

I think most things can be self taught and understood better/quicker. Also experience is a lot better than reading something out a book/a bit of paper saying you can do it, in my opinion.

Anyway, I'll def check out these sites.

Thanks

Lee
 
Lee,

> I understand that I am no expert, and have not been educated professionally, but i do wish to incorporate, at least at a basic level, acoustics into my business. <

I never went to college for this either and it didn't stop me. :D

I have nothing against higher education, but for many fields what matters is what you know, not what degrees you have. You'd hope your doctor and lawyer have degrees, and for good reason. But for audio (and computer) stuff this is not necessary. Some of the best and brightest minds I know of are entirely self taught having learned everything by reading and asking questions, as you are.

> bombard me with as much in depth information as you can think of on acoustics! <

Besides my Acoustics FAQ, I am constantly adding new articles to the RealTraps site:

www.realtraps.com/articles.htm

I just added an evaluation of the Audyssey "room correction" hardware about a week ago.

> Obviously I'm asking a lot of you guys, especially without offering anything in the way of payment <

That's okay, I'll bill you later. :D

--Ethan
 
Ethan Winer said:
Lee,

> I understand that I am no expert, and have not been educated professionally, but i do wish to incorporate, at least at a basic level, acoustics into my business. <

I never went to college for this either and it didn't stop me. :D

I have nothing against higher education, but for many fields what matters is what you know, not what degrees you have. You'd hope your doctor and lawyer have degrees, and for good reason. But for audio (and computer) stuff this is not necessary. Some of the best and brightest minds I know of are entirely self taught having learned everything by reading and asking questions, as you are.

> bombard me with as much in depth information as you can think of on acoustics! <

Besides my Acoustics FAQ, I am constantly adding new articles to the RealTraps site:

www.realtraps.com/articles.htm

I just added an evaluation of the Audyssey "room correction" hardware about a week ago.

> Obviously I'm asking a lot of you guys, especially without offering anything in the way of payment <

That's okay, I'll bill you later. :D

--Ethan
Click to expand...
Brilliant, thanks Ethan. I do check up on your site every so often, but i suppose there is a hell of a lot of info, and one can only take in so much at a time, :D so i forget some bits, and leave out others. I'll have to have a good read through as much in your site as I can.

I'm glad to hear that you never went to college either. Takes a lot off my chest. I just felt as though to be an acoustical designer, i'd require some kind of education, after what my lecturer said anyway.

Is it ok if i use some of your information, from your site, and from what you say in here, in my project?

Thanks

Lee
 
Ohh, and Ethan, I know that your RealTraps deals with improving acoustics of an already built room. Do you ever branch out to helping with unbuilt rooms? Do you know as much on the subject of building rooms right acoustically, as you do on improving the acoustics of a room through absorption?

Do you have any info on this(don't tell me it's in you acoustics faq... that'll just prove my terrible memory :o )?

Thanks

Lee
 
And another thing Ethan... That did you think of my absorption panel idea here. Will it work as i hope? Will it provide more bass absorption than a standard ultratouch broadband panel across a corner?
 
Acoustics doesn't pay for shit. Most of they guys are just in it for the chicks :D
 
Lee,

> Is it ok if i use some of your information, from your site, and from what you say in here, in my project? <

Of course.

> Do you ever branch out to helping with unbuilt rooms? Do you know as much on the subject of building rooms right acoustically, as you do on improving the acoustics of a room through absorption? <

I'm not a construction expert, but I certainly know the basics. I do this for customers often, and it's common that someone will need my advice months before they're ready to buy our acoustic products. So in that case I charge a small deposit, and that's then applied to the eventual purchase.

> That did you think of my absorption panel idea here. Will it work as i hope? <

Get rid of the rigid backing and you'll be fine.

--Ethan
 
Ethan Winer said:
Lee,

> Is it ok if i use some of your information, from your site, and from what you say in here, in my project? <

Of course.

> Do you ever branch out to helping with unbuilt rooms? Do you know as much on the subject of building rooms right acoustically, as you do on improving the acoustics of a room through absorption? <

I'm not a construction expert, but I certainly know the basics. I do this for customers often, and it's common that someone will need my advice months before they're ready to buy our acoustic products. So in that case I charge a small deposit, and that's then applied to the eventual purchase.

> That did you think of my absorption panel idea here. Will it work as i hope? <

Get rid of the rigid backing and you'll be fine.

--Ethan
Click to expand...
Yeah i know about not having a rigid back, but the board will be perforated, so the sound will still travel through, and I'm hoping the perforated board will act as a helmholtz resonator.

Is this correct?

And by the basics, do you mean basics for sound isolation like Rick posts, mass air mass etc, or like basics for good acoustics, ie what angles walls should be etc?
 
pandamonk said:
I'm hoping the perforated board will act as a helmholtz resonator.
Click to expand...

I have no experience with Helmholtz absorbers, so I can't say if it will work or not. But aren't those supposed to be sealed air tight? Also, tuned absorption is not a good choice in smaller rooms.

--Ethan
 
Ethan Winer said:
I have no experience with Helmholtz absorbers, so I can't say if it will work or not. But aren't those supposed to be sealed air tight? Also, tuned absorption is not a good choice in smaller rooms.

--Ethan
Click to expand...
Neither do i, os that's why I'm asking. Someone replied saying that the BBC tested and concluded that helmholtz absorbers don't need to be sealed. And if it's across the corner, the distance from the holes to the wall range from 0-1'ish, so it wont be "tuned" as such. Thats my theory anyway. You know anyone who could help?

Lee
 
If you want to test the sealing thing for yourself, try drilling some holes in the bottom of a plastic soda bottle. Blow across one with no holes and one with holes in the bottom and see what the difference is.

It will still work but won't be as intense nor as controlled and predictable.

Bryan
 
bpape said:
If you want to test the sealing thing for yourself, try drilling some holes in the bottom of a plastic soda bottle. Blow across one with no holes and one with holes in the bottom and see what the difference is.

It will still work but won't be as intense nor as controlled and predictable.

Bryan
Click to expand...
Aha, good test. I'm really bothered about it being controlled, 'cause in a small room you don't really want a tuned trap anyway.

You think it would work better than a standard broadband across corner trap, or should i just forget the idea? If i forget it, how should i frame the trap to leave the edges exposed? I though of mesh, but I can't staple the fabric to it.

Lee
 
I am by far no exeprt at this stuff, but you may also want to look a little bit into fashion/design textile kind of stuff just so your products can be styling, cause it doesnt have to particularly look nice in your home studio but people dont want a bunch of egg foam all over their ceiling in their theatre... you know?
 
sk8bobby10 said:
I am by far no exeprt at this stuff, but you may also want to look a little bit into fashion/design textile kind of stuff just so your products can be styling, cause it doesnt have to particularly look nice in your home studio but people dont want a bunch of egg foam all over their ceiling in their theatre... you know?
Click to expand...
Yeah I know what you mean. I will hopefully be looking for something along the lines of ready acoustics' products.
 
Unless your working for some company that demands such credentials, I agree that a paid education in the acoustics department will be of little meaning to your clients. They will however want to know that you really know your stuff as most people who would even be remotely interested in acoustic treatment might already have a general idea of how it works and why they need it so you really need to be prepared to prove the value of your service by demenstrating you have professional knowlage and tools well beyond the scope of what they do (especially for a pro music studio).

A good start up buisiness model to consider might be a combination of consulting, becoming a retail distributer of the products you recommend, and also an installer of them. This could possibly expand later into selling the high end audio gear that goes into such environments for or even a full blown hometheatere/pro stuidio remodelling type buisiness where you take on the role of general contractor and sub out individual constuction elements (or even learn to do them too).
 
NRS said:
Unless your working for some company that demands such credentials, I agree that a paid education in the acoustics department will be of little meaning to your clients. They will however want to know that you really know your stuff as most people who would even be remotely interested in acoustic treatment might already have a general idea of how it works and why they need it so you really need to be prepared to prove the value of your service by demenstrating you have professional knowlage and tools well beyond the scope of what they do (especially for a pro music studio).

A good start up buisiness model to consider might be a combination of consulting, becoming a retail distributer of the products you recommend, and also an installer of them. This could possibly expand later into selling the high end audio gear that goes into such environments for or even a full blown hometheatere/pro stuidio remodelling type buisiness where you take on the role of general contractor and sub out individual constuction elements (or even learn to do them too).
Click to expand...
Good idea, however I wanna have my input on things, ie i like the idea of being a distributor, but i'd wanna do something more than just receiving it and selling on. I'd like to receive stuff, like from bpabe(Brian), such as his bass buster or bulk pack cotton bass absorber here, and frame/wrap it to sell on to a consumer. I will obviously hopefully get this upto a standard better than they could do themselves. I will also hopefully be able to offer my products at quite a reasonable price. Not much more than what they could get doing it themselves, while still gaining a profit.

I know that they'll wana see proof that my stuff works etc, and that's where my own studio will come in. I'll show them that i turned a little shed and bomb shelter at the bottom of the garden into a good little home studio offering good quality recordings and good mixes in the well treated control room.

I duno, but all this is great stuff. Giving me lots to think about. :D

Lee
 
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