A recording question of sorts...

[lomky]

So how do you guys deal w/ projects turning into a grind for the band? I'm working w/ a band right now, they are friends of mine, and I'm charging very little (which is OK as far as I'm concerned) but that also gives them ample oportunity to take as long as they want to do overdubs. This is turning into months now (we all work day jobs, so we just record on evenings and weekends). They are a good band, but they are starting to pick things to death. They've recorded with me before and allwys had a few things end up on the albumn that really bugged them, so they are trying to avoid this.

They come in one at a time to do thier parts, be it guitar bass or vocals, so they are kinda working in isolation (other than me). The project is turning out really well so far, but I kinda feel things pulling apart with comments that they make.

What I said this week was to take a break, they have a show on the weekend, and I'm hoping that playing live (they haven't since we started recording) will help get back a "spark"

Just wondering how others deal w/ such things.

 

[gummblefish]

I Usually track live and restrict overdubs as much as possible. I used to say to bands "take your time, get it right" now i have the attitude of "if you cant do it live then dont bother" I cant be arsed with bands pissing about for hours whist i sit there and nod my head. Track them live, soon they will find what side of the bread they are buttered on...sorry had to get that shit analogy in....its a kind of in joke between me and ...well....me!

 

[Crumbles]

I Usually track live and restrict overdubs as much as possible. I used to say to bands "take your time, get it right" now i have the attitude of "if you cant do it live then dont bother" I cant be arsed with bands pissing about for hours whist i sit there and nod my head. Track them live, soon they will find what side of the bread they are buttered on...sorry had to get that shit analogy in....its a kind of in joke between me and ...well....me!

Well tell you that it was a shit joke. From me.

 

[lomky]

I Usually track live and restrict overdubs as much as possible. I used to say to bands "take your time, get it right" now i have the attitude of "if you cant do it live then dont bother" I cant be arsed with bands pissing about for hours whist i sit there and nod my head. Track them live, soon they will find what side of the bread they are buttered on...sorry had to get that shit analogy in....its a kind of in joke between me and ...well....me!

Well OK, so that tells me that you don't deal w/ the problem I outlined in the OP, so that offers what is the equivalent to zero help to me.

Thanks for the input, but in my situation I rent a studio to basically get the drums right and then do overdubs at "home" so the extra time taken in the studio to get everything right is equal to real money.

And there is a real difference between doing it well live and doing it well in the studio. They can definitly do "it" live, that is what really impresses me about this band.

And I can be arsed to work for hours getting it right, 'cause I like these guys and I like working w/ them.

I guess I am more venting some frustrations, and I guess I'm not really looking for any real answers, so we can just leave this thread disapear into HR oblivion.

 

[Micter]

Someone has to produce the project that has the final say. In most cases that is ME!
Really, someone has to be in charge and take control. I'm in the middle of a simular project but because they have given me the role of producer they allow me to make the decisions on what is good and what is not. It's not always going to be what everyone collectively wants, though.

 

[loveofjazz]

People Problem

I'm working w/ a band right now, they are friends of mine, and I'm charging very little (which is OK as far as I'm concerned) but that also gives them ample oportunity to take as long as they want to do overdubs.

...I am always weary of working for friends. Friends often take advantage of your good nature. I really do try to assess the situation and see if I'm prepared for what could potentially happen...and this is only for doing a live performance for them. It's GOT to be rather involved when it comes to recording.

They are a good band, but they are starting to pick things to death. They've recorded with me before and allwys had a few things end up on the albumn that really bugged them, so they are trying to avoid this.

...sounds like it could be as much a personality issue (perhaps even a collective personality or mindset) that causes this.

They come in one at a time to do thier parts, be it guitar bass or vocals, so they are kinda working in isolation (other than me). The project is turning out really well so far, but I kinda feel things pulling apart with comments that they make.

...if they've got negative comments, stop, back-up, and re-group. What kind of problems are they pointing out? Is this something you can change, or maybe something that they need to change? Is it something that can be helped at all? Also, if they've got nasty comments, maybe they can be steered in a more positive direction. Regardless of how much you dig their outfit or not...you are ultimately the decision-maker. Tired of mouthy people? Sit 'em down, & set 'em straight. If they've been informed that their poor attitudes are counter-productive and they persist, then you make the call...you either tough it out, or tell them to pack it in and split.
....or you can just sit there and take the shit they dish out. It's up to you.

What I said this week was to take a break, they have a show on the weekend, and I'm hoping that playing live (they haven't since we started recording) will help get back a "spark"

Just wondering how others deal w/ such things.

...you must be a real nice guy. I just don't have much of a tolerance for people like that. I've met some real nice engineers, and they'll tell you that recording creates a completely different environment, and it seems to carry it's own kind of stress. Honestly, the few times I've done any recording (guitar tracks) for anyone else, I end up getting stressed.

It's admirable to stick it out when you feel as you do...but at what point do you realize you might be beating a dead horse? These people might be hearing it completely different when they're playing the music then how the recorded product is coming across when they listen to it.

You can't please everybody. I mean, you can try...but that's a serious challenge.

 

[chessrock]

Well, if you actually charged people money for your time, rather than working for less than sweatshop labor in a thrid-world country ... you probably wouldn't have that problem.

I'm just sayin.
.

 

[gummblefish]

Well OK, so that tells me that you don't deal w/ the problem I outlined in the OP, so that offers what is the equivalent to zero help to me.

Thanks for the input, but in my situation I rent a studio to basically get the drums right and then do overdubs at "home" so the extra time taken in the studio to get everything right is equal to real money.

And there is a real difference between doing it well live and doing it well in the studio. They can definitly do "it" live, that is what really impresses me about this band.

And I can be arsed to work for hours getting it right, 'cause I like these guys and I like working w/ them.

I guess I am more venting some frustrations, and I guess I'm not really looking for any real answers, so we can just leave this thread disapear into HR oblivion.

Im talking about recording them live in the studio. You will find that you get things done quicker after you have spent the initial time setting up. I like working with some of the bands i produce too but im not gonna sit there for next to nothing while they fanny about. Take control.

 

[pinhedgtr]

You need to remind them that you are doing this as a favor to them and you can't be spending too much time on the nitpicking. Opinions are like assholes....everyone has one. I also charge very little to record friends, but I tell them straight up, even before recording them, that I will do the best I can, but if you want a perfect demo, then you may want to go to a "real studio". As far as the comments, try to take that as constructive criticism and don't let it bother you too much. Also the experience your getting both recording and dealing with the nitpicking clients is priceless.

 

[Robert D]

In this kind of arrangement there has to be some controls in place or it becomes the never-ending pursuit of unattainable perfection. This is a real trap. Set a date for project completion and make a plan for achieving it. A good way to do this is to have them plan a release party and send out invitations so that it is committed. That should get things on track and put the spark back in. The alternative is an overproduced CD that everyone is tired of before it ever gets shrink-wrapped.

 

[peopleperson]

I say don't be afriad to say something about it in pure and simple terms. You'd probably be doing them a huge favor. It's hard to see that stuff sometimes unless you're on the outside.

 

[cusebassman]

It looks like just about every piece of advice has been offered... I've been in the same situation where I offer my services and space in my free time to help both myself and the artist out, since I want to get more recording experience (dealing with equipment / production / people, etc), and they want to get some songs down. I don't charge much, depending on the person (friend / aquaintance / unknown person), but you do have to draw the line, and let them know that they are on a schedule, and that they are using up your time as well as their own.

Tracking live is a great way to get things done, but often times that is not an option (either you don't have the space to record everyone, the equipment to do so, or when the players are sub-par, but I don't know your client so I won't judge). I really like the suggestion for scheduling a release party, since it gives them a realistic window for when the thing needs to be done. It might be a tricky issue to bring up, because if they weren't planning on having one to begin with, you will have to lead them to believe that having a release party is solely for the good press, etc., without them getting suspicious. This might be easy or difficult, depending on the personalities you're dealing with.

 

[lomky]

This is all good advice, however, the original question was how to help the band, as it's turning into a grind for them. As far as I'm concerned I'm having fun, and I don't mind the time it takes (I got nothing better to do than sit in front of the TV and freeze my ass off in this winter storm anyway).

The truth is that the band is having a hard time getting motivated and the performances are suffering. Tracking live off the floor was something that we talked about, but the band and I decided against it. We did, however, keep some of the bass and guitar tracks. The problem was that the bass player also sings, so the vocals took a backseat.

hmmm, maybe I should take a note from the producer of London Calling, I saw a video of him dancing around and being a freak!

Again, all the advice is appreciated, but I guess I was just venting.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

This is all good advice, however, the original question was how to help the band, as it's turning into a grind for them.

This is not meant to be a smart-assed answer, but rather an honest one...

The best way to help them is to get them off the microphones and have them practice until they're sharp as a stiletto, and then practice some more after that until they can nail it in their sleep.

Only then should they step in front of the mics. And only then can they make their time in the studio efficient without needing to re-take every quarter note to get it right.

Then, the second-best thing to do for them is to mutually vote *one person* as the producer. Whether it be the band leader, you, or the best musician of the bunch, let one person be the one to make the decision as to when the tape is cooked enough and what needs to be re-done. Having everybody provide control room input and haggling over this riff or that run is going to not only take forever, but it's going to result in an inorganic-sounding mix that may be technically more accurate but will lack the soul.

G.

 

[lomky]

Hey Glen, that was going to be my last response on the thread, but I respect you too much to let it hang.

It's kinda funny, because yesterday I was jamming with them a little and after a bit I went upstairs where my control room is. I realised that there was a couple of mics still set up downstairs so I proceeded to record their jam. I'll tell ya, some of it was magic! I think next time we meet I'm gonna show them the jam recordings and say, do it this way!!

And I saw no "smart-assedness" in your reply. There is one person that is calling the shots, and some of them have been "cheap" when it's just me and him. I just tell him flat out that's between you guys, and I don't want to hear about it, just get down there and give me a good take!

It's too early for me to properly formulate a sentence right now so I'm going to leave it at that.

Oh, one more thing, what kind of monitors should I buy for under $500 *sarcasm*

 

[K.P.]

I understand what you're saying

When dealing with "Friends", I just lay it out as nicely as possible

No practicing during tracking except to artistically alter the piece, but then please take it off line to determine direction.

I remind them that this is basically at my discretion and I'll stop when I determine it's close... I usually don't ask

I never (never ever) allow then to attend mixing and I require them to assign one person for me to deal with.

Artistic disputes have to be done outside of the studio. If that starts, tracking stops.

If a part isn't hapening for whatever reason, the part isn't tracked or one chance later after offline preactice to track it... else nada.

I'm really talking about youngsters. I have never had this problem with older adults. But the rules would be very similar.

I'm usually willing to stretch if it appears the artists have done their homework. But, my patience is very then if it appears they're wasting my time.