A little more mic pre pleez?

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lotuscent

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OK, i have been reading boards and researching mic pre's heavily for the last few weeks. I have some nice mics - a U87, an alesis AM51 and a Shure sm81 are the main workhorses. Sadly, I have experience with only mackies (old) and an ART Tube MP. yeah yeah yeah, I know... anyway it is now time to act. But first one last stab at getting some of your expert opinions out there...

From researching, I have come to understand that pre's can be thought of like guitar amps, something I am very experienced with. don't get a Matchless (boutique, fine as hell) if you want to play metal. Don't get a Marshall Plexi (classic, benchmark, sweeeet) if you want to play bebop, don't get Soldano (expensive, massive thick modern kill) if you play country... you get the idea. All incredible amps, all would suck for the wrong purpose...

So here we go - I am mostly a guitarist/bassist, do lots of acoustic (nylon and steel) as well as electric. I like a "real" and "natural" vibe, organic I guess I would say. My style is very jazz and latin influenced, and lately, some pop and hip hop flavors. Vocally, I sing best in a lowish tenor range with breath and roundness. I'm not a powerful belter or screamer. Currently using all manner of sampled and fake drums, do not intend to record real ones anytime soon (studio not equipped)

I would ideally like 2 channels, but my budget is around a grand. I know I may be better off just getting one for now...

Please bless me with your wisdom and experience!

peace.
 
lotuscent said:
I like a "real" and "natural" vibe, organic I guess I would say.
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As far as the natural / organic thing goes, it sounds like you might be in the market for something in the transparent category.

Heading up that camp would probably be The John Hardy M1 or M2, followed by the Grace Design 101 and/or the Earthworks Labs 101.
 
I have a Grace 201 and I think it would sound great on acoustic guitar. It's clean, but also musical. I've recorded piano with it and found the results to be very real and present. It's also built beautifully, almost a work of art in my opinion.

Perhaps a couple Grace 101's would be closer to your budget than the two channel 201.
 
I would suggest the the following:

Option 1: A Sytek MPX4Aii four-channel mic preamp with jfet option on channels three and four. This will give you two sets of channels with different colors.

Option 2: A Grace 101 and an FMR RNP.

Steve
www.mojopie.com
 
These are all well documented pres... all of these I have considered. I'm not so sure I want something in the "neutral" and "transparent" school. When I say "natural and organic vibe," I don't necessarily mean "real." I was using these terms to describe the musical texture, not the actual sonic clarity. does this make sense?

I do want warmth and character, thought i know that transparent does not necessarily exclude these qualities.

Any more comments out there?
 
lotuscent said:
These are all well documented pres... all of these I have considered. I'm not so sure I want something in the "neutral" and "transparent" school. When I say "natural and organic vibe," I don't necessarily mean "real." I was using these terms to describe the musical texture, not the actual sonic clarity. does this make sense?

I do want warmth and character, thought i know that transparent does not necessarily exclude these qualities.

Any more comments out there?
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When I said "real" I meant it as a color. The Grace "thing" is real but it's more than real. Intellectually, to me, the Grace is like a photorealistic painting.

Well, if you don't want something like that then I'd suggest the FMR RNP, the Sytek MPX-4Aii, or the Great River ME-1NV.
 
Thanks for the input ozraves. I like analogy of the grace to a photorealistic painting. gets me a better understanding.

You all may be thinking "Why can't you just go out and try some?" Well I live in rural Alaska... five hours away from the nearest not so well stocked music store, hence, seeking advice on the boards...

The reason I made the guitar amp analogy in the first place was because I was hoping it would spur a discussion of the different preamp characteristics and what sorts of applications they best fit... I am a guitar teacher by day and get asked all the time about guitars and guitar rigs. By checking out a person's style and artistic aims, I can make good recommendations. Perhaps mic pre's are not so clear cut.

I would love to hear some people comment about their favorite pre's and how their characteristics lend to their particular recording goals and styles...
 
c7sus said:
JoeMeek VC1Q. The ORIGINAL version with the transformer front end. If you need two channels check out the TwinQ.

But above all stay away from the "CS" version.
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I don't have a problem with you not recommending the CS version because it is now out of production and will be replaced. But the CS version also has a transformer on the input, and the Twin Q has the same CS pre. Now, the ORIGINAL version may have been a lot better, but I couldn't say because I haven't heard it. I do know the CS version definitely does not suck. Of course, we all expect the new reengineered TwinQ and Single VC1Q to kick ass.
 
lotuscent, I don't know if guitar amps is a good analogy - especially since you're looking to cut all your tracks through the same pre. In that case, for instance, you would rule out the excellent Vintech Dual 72, because while a few tracks cut with it can sound amazing, too many things tracked through it and the mix will lose clarity.

Another thing that narrows the field is your budget of $1000 for two channels. because there just aren't that many really good dual-channel pres for a grand.

Taking into account your budget and that you do a lot of acoustic-based, Jazz, Latin-based music and are looking for something "organic", I'd recommend you go one of two ways.

1. A Designs MP-2 - dual-channel all-tube mic pre. $1250. Very "organic" and stands up well when doing multiple tracks. I reviewed the MP-1 here.

2. I agree w/ ozraves; get two pres. The dual-channel FMR Audio RNP at $450. Somewhat colored with a nice top-end. And also the Grace Design 101 single-channel. Transparent and transformerless. Very clean and a good balance to the RNP. This combination would give you more sonic possibilties than a single dual-channel pre - plus you'd have three good pre channels.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
 
Dot and Oz (and anyone else),
How would you guys describe the "color"/accuracy of the VTB-1 compared to the RNP and Grace on dynamic microphones?

Chris
 
Yeah, I don't really know what C7's problem with the cs version of the Joemeek is, but I own a twinQcs which works just fine. There are some things for which I use it in preference to my Avalon.-Richie
 
yeah, maybe the guitar amp analogy is not quite on the mark... I will still be using the old pre's that I have - I have enough experience to know when they are useful so I don't intend to record everything through them.

Anyway, to stop agonizing and start acting, I just ordered an RNP so at least that is done. I don't suppose I can really go wrong there. So maybe I go overbudget a bit and get one sweeeet one now.

Only live once!

peace.
 
C7, whether the Current Sense feature of the mic pre works as advertised does not mean the mic pre itself is not good. I don't like the enhancer on the VC1Q either, but it is still a damn good vox box and DI, and Alan has stated this himself. He even used one on the first Studio Projects CD when comparing the "C" series mics, recording each of the mics through the VC1Qcs, Neve 1089, Trident "A" Series, V72, and Focusrite Red. I listened blindly--not knowing what pre or mic I was listening to--and was impressed by how well the VC1Q stacked up against these heavyweights. And I wasn't the only one.

Alan is re-designing ALL (or at least most) of the Meek gear not because it isn't any good--because it is--but because he wants to put HIS signature on it, and in doing so he wants to make it even better, which I applaud.
 
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Well, I can't tell you any techno-stories of why cs does or doesn't work. What I can tell you is that the twinQcs most certainly *does* work. In fact, so well, that after endless AB tests, the lead vocal of my title song just got tracked on it in preference to the Avalon. Usually I go straight to the Kiwi/Avalon connection for main vox, but there's about 4 songs where it just turned out to be NTK into the twinQ, and one that's SP C-3 into the twinQ.
And you'll notice Alan wasn't saying anything about how cs circuitry doesn't work when he was selling them like hotcakes. I'm sure the new twinQ will be a much better preamp, and I'll trade in a heartbeat. But for right now, I couldn't make this album without the twinQ(cs).-Richie "It's not easy being green".
 
Seems like almost everyone I know who buys a Joemeek winds up selling it after a few years.


Not sure what that means, but it's interesting to note.
 
chessrock said:
Seems like almost everyone I know who buys a Joemeek winds up selling it after a few years.
Not sure what that means, but it's interesting to note.
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Seems like I've seen a lot of Avalon, DBX, and Focusrite preamps winding up selling on ebay lately.


Not sure what that means, but it's interesting to note.
 
On the other hand...
I've owned used;

VC3Q
VC6Q
VC6

And the VC6 is my favorite of the three.
Learned from noted engineer, Ty Ford, that the trick with the enhancer
is to use VERY little-so it's only noticable if you do a direct A/B, rather
than earballing it by cranking it up.

BTW, someone is buying mine, however, if I did any serious mixing at
home, it wouldn't have been sold as the compression/enhancer is
quite useful.

Chris
 
I have loved my vc6q. I think the eq is an awesome addition for tracking bass direct.


BTW If the poster is looking for an RNP, I just listed one in the for sale section with an RNC and the funk logic rack panel.
 
tdukex said:
Seems like I've seen a lot of Avalon, DBX, and Focusrite preamps winding up selling on ebay lately.
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Yea, but most of the people I know who buy Avalons and Focusrites wind up keeping them forever -- or untill they desperately need cash. And even then, they're the last things they get rid of after they've had 'em for at least 10 years.

In contrast, the average "rackspan" for the Joemeek is probably about 2-3 years before it's ebay fodder.
 
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