A brand of mic that may be overlooked . . .

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chessrock

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Lately, I've been doing some research on mics (big surprize there, I know :D), and CAD seems to keep popping up. I'm wondering if we haven't been mistakenly ignoring these guys for some time now. I'll admit, I am a culprit, myself, of getting caught up in all the SP/Marshall/AT/Rode hype.

Anyway, here is a basic summary of what I've found. To any of you who own any of these mics, please chime in with your thoughts and/or corrections:

* CAD E-100 : Single-pattern version of the e-200. Pros: Very neutral-sounding. Warm. Great for kick drum, and some vocal chores, guitar amps. Cons: Slow; not good on transients or detail.

* CAD E-200 : Pros: See above comments on e-100. More versatile with multiple patterns. Cons: see above.

* CAD E-350 : Different from E-100 and 200; larger diaphragm, supposedly a better capsule, and faster transient response. Pros: Not overly-hyped, smooth, big and present-sounding, has sound that competes well with very expensive mics, great bang-for-buck. Versitile; lots of patterns and options.

Cons: Sometimes has trouble with sibilances.

All mics tend to have an unusually high output, and have outstanding, flat bass response far below the threshold of human hearing . . . making them great for kick and other bass instruments. All mics also seem to have an unusually high tolerence for high SPLs.

Here are some various quotes I've gathered from magazine reviews:

EQ Mag (on CAD e-350) "totally up to the challenge . . ." "providing a smooth top-end with good presence and no shrillness." "handled the SPL like a champ - even with the pad off. Since we could run the preamp gain low, the resulting recording was quiet."

EQ Mag Voiceover mic shootout: "The CAD-E-350 is a standout. With sound, performance, design, packaging and features that match or exceed those of mics two and three times it's price, the E-350 is the next studio condenser star." "Why isn't this mic in more studios?"

Also scored a 5.0 in this review in every category evaluated, against some stiff competition.

Guitarsite: "I have the feeling that CAD is a company that is on a one-way ticket to stellar legendary status."

Surprizingly, here are some quotes that really caught my eye regarding their cheaper models, the M177 and M179. To my knowlege, these are based on their E-300, with cheaper imported capsules, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong):

Sound-on-Sound: "the M179 costs less than the AKG C4000, Audio Technica AT4050 or Rode NT2, yet is, at the very least, their equal. Only the AKG is quieter and none has as flat or extended a frequency response."

RW Online: "Given the innovative and efficient means of manufacturing the microphone, the introduction of the CAD M177 could be compared to the debut of the similarly well-thought-out Mackie 1202 and 1402 series mixing boards only a few years earlier. "

That's some pretty high praise for such a cheap mic. Anyone have any opionions or comments? I'm also surprized at the response the E-350 seems to get in comparison to some of the higher-end mics. Cyan Jaguar, I thought you might be particularly interested in this, since you seem to have a lot of knowlege and interest regarding the $600 - $1000 microphone range. Any thoughts?

Anyone with experience with any of these mics have any other comments?
 
It's been said that "CAD" lived up to it's name by directly ripping off Stephen Paul's ideas, and was a bitter experience for him.
Won't be planning to buy from them anyway as there are too many other good choices.

Chris
 
chessparov said:
It's been said that "CAD" lived up to it's name by directly ripping off Stephen Paul's ideas, and was a bitter experience for him.
Click to expand...

Very interesting. Any details? You got my curiosity.
 
E100..Sounds pretty good on guit amps..Also can be used without phantom by two 9 volt batts..

Don
 
chess dude, you scare me with how much research you do sometimes :)

surely by now you have found some mics you like, esp. in this price range...and it's time to move on? heh..

nah, i'm just kidding man...i know how it is to get personal joy out of researching stuff...i do that with a lot of things, just gave it up with recording...

i got to the point where i decided what i have is what i have...and it's time to do an album.
 
wes480 said:
surely by now you have found some mics you like, esp. in this price range...and it's time to move on? heh..
Click to expand...

Yea, you're right. Let's talk about preamps, then. :D :D
 
I have the CAD M-37, which is the Musician's Friend/Guitar Center version of the M-177. Same mic, but different housing. It's my only large diaphragm condensor, but I've been loving it. Very clean and versatile.
 
I've always heard good things about CAD. The product line used to always be featured in some of the bigger mail order catalogs a few years back. I think Musician's Friend was blowing out a few of the models a few months ago.
 
chessrock, I read about "it" either on r.a.p. or recording.org IIRC.

Chris
 
Hmmm. I wasn't able to find anything about what you're refering to, Chris. But there is an interesting "Soap-opera"-esque tie-in with Stephen Paul, the CAD e-200, and Harvey.

From what I was able to gather, the e-200 was originally designed by Harvey, or at least based on his original concept. Only problem is CAD used a different capsule -- one that Harvey actually rejected. Anyway, Stephen Paul apparently wrote a review of the mic for Pro Audio Review, and basically tore the shit out of it. :D

Interesting story in an "as-the-mic-world-turns" sort of way. Perhaps the story you're mentioning has something to do with why SP was so eager to give them a bad review? From what I gather, the magazine was even sued by CAD for printing the review. Hmm. Could this even go a ways to explain why so many other rags were so quick to write such glowing reviews or their other mics (fear of lawsuit?)

What an interesting twist. It almost seems a little too tabloid to be even be real. Maybe the Harvmeister can chime in and clear up the confusion?
 
Whoopysnorp said:
I have the CAD M-37, which is the Musician's Friend/Guitar Center version of the M-177. Same mic, but different housing. It's my only large diaphragm condensor, but I've been loving it. Very clean and versatile.
Click to expand...

I allso have a M-37, not bad mic for $100. It is clean as whoopy said. I use it on vocals, and i think it sounds better up close on a 4x12 cab insted of a ft away. I havent had good luck w/ it on kick thou.
 
detuned6 said:


I allso have a M-37, not bad mic for $100. It is clean as whoopy said. I use it on vocals, and i think it sounds better up close on a 4x12 cab insted of a ft away. I havent had good luck w/ it on kick thou.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I tried it on my kick, and it was no good compared to my e602.
 
chessrock, Stephen's professionalism, along with his character, would keep
him from making UNJUSTIFIED criticism of an audio product.

Chris
 
chessparov said:
chessrock, Stephen's professionalism, along with his character, would keep him from making UNJUSTIFIED criticism of an audio product.
Click to expand...

While I admittedly don't know a lot about SP, I understand that he is apparently a genius, and is credited with inventing the microphone and all that. :D But professionalism isn't necessarily a trait that pops to mind when I think of SP. :D Candor is, though, and I appreciate the fact that someone would give an honest review of a product. I wish more people would.
 
The Rest Of The Story

While I wasn't a party to everything that went on, I can tell you the few things I know about the events surrounding the design of the CAD E200 and Stephen's review of the mic, and you can draw your own conclusions.

In 1987, I was Director of Electronics at International Music Company (IMC) in Fort Worth. I was directly responsible for all the electronic stuff that was happening there, which included Jackson, Charvel, and Hondo guitars, Ross Electronics, Akai, Fame loudspeakers, Studiomaster boards, and a few other brands they either owned outright or were the US distributor for.

I started working on my own time on a new multipattern mic that would be able to be sold for about 1/3rd of the lowest price current multipattern mic, the 414 (at about $1,200). I came up with the idea of using a dual capsule design based on small 1/2" electrets that were becoming pretty popular at that time. Because of the size of these capsules, the housing had to be pretty big, so I settled on a "U-47"-ish kinda look.

I designed (or had designed) a simple clean circuit that would run off a pair of 9 Volt batteries, and later, we modified it to run off phantom power as well. After I presented the finished mic design to IMC, they decided to go ahead with castings for the body and we actually had one completely built and we showed it at the 1988 AES show, where it excited a lot of people, at it's projected $350 price point.

Even though we had a lot of orders for the mic from dealers, Jerry Freed (the president of IMC) decided he didn't wanna get into the mic making business, and the entire project was shelved. Needless to say, I was pretty pissed.

My old friend Dick Rosmini was writting manuals for some of the Akai keyboards and I was bitching to him about Jerry's decision. Dick told me that he was consulting for Astatic (CAD's parent company) and they were looking for a new concept in mics, and would I mind if he told them about my design? I said sure, go ahead, and gave him all my design work on it, including the mic circuits and all my tests of different capsules.

After a few months, Dick told me they were going to use the basic idea, but had some changes they were gonna make in the circuitry and they were gonna use the Primo capsules, instead of the YASU capsules I had spec'ed. Dick's health was failing, and he left Astatic. After the E200 came out, I tried to at least get a free pair, but nobody there said they had ever heard of me, nor would they return phone calls. Rosmini said that was insane since he credited me as the designer in almost every correspondence he had with Astatic.

Dick died a short time after that, and I didn't pursue it any further. From what Dick said, Astatic pretty well screwed Dick over, too. Now both Dick and I were very good friends with another mic designer, Stephen Paul.

Stephen was a mic god as far as Dick and I were concerned. Did I bitch to Stephen about what they had done to my design? Well, it was 14 years ago, but I may have. Did Dick bitch to Stephen about CAD? I wouldn't be surprised if he did - Dick and Stephen were very close friends.

Stephen's review of the E200 was very unflattering but very accurate. I still to this day don't know exactly all the things that happened after I gave Dick my paperwork on the mic.

But at least you all now know everything I know about the whole situation surrounding me and the CAD E200.
 
Re: The Rest Of The Story

Harvey Gerst said:
Stephen's review of the E200 was very unflattering but very accurate.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Interesting, in an as-the-mic-world turns sort of way. So do you think it would be worthwhile to pick one of these babies up used, and mod it with the yasu capsules? Would it be possible or even worth the expense?
 
The Primo capsules were pretty expensive but very consistent, unlike the YASU. You had to go thru a tray of YASU capsules, handmatching them and throwing away the 80% or so that didn't meet our spec. (Even though we never came out with it, we had a pilot run of 50 capsules ready to go).

I guess they didn't want to deal with those inconsistencies, and went with the more costly Primo units (same capsule as the Nakamichi CM300 mics).
 
chessrock said:
Here are some various quotes I've gathered from magazine reviews:
Click to expand...

Now I'm normally not the type to read too far in to things, but "pretty good" isn't necessarily a glowing review . . . any more than saying a girl looks "pretty good." Or that she "has a nice personality." But anyhoooooo . . . :D:D
 
Touche Alan.

Thanks for the story Harvey. At first blush you would think that Astatic was the asshole in this picture. But then, if you put your corporate capitalist pig hat on, another theory emerges. Astatic couldn't very well acknowledge that they had receieved a design developed on IMC's nickel could they? That would be a tacit admission of guilt. You said you were working on your own time, at least to start but I wonder if some rights may have transferred, especially if you had pre-orders from dealers?

Astatic probably is the asshole in the picture, and I certainly don't mean to cast aspersions your way, I just wonder about motivation in these corporate intrigues.

Thanks again for the story.

lou
 
Re: Re: A brand of mic that may be overlooked . . .

alanhyatt said:


Now I'm normally not the type to read too far in to things, but "pretty good" isn't necessarily a glowing review . . . any more than saying a girl looks "pretty good." Or that she "has a nice personality." But anyhoooooo . . . :D:D
Click to expand...

I guess that depends on how many beers you've had.:eek: :D

Seriously I used an E350 once for vocals and found it to be very flat sounding; too much so IMHO. Maybe lifeless would be a better description although maybe that was due to the cheap Mackie board.
 
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