603s Pair for Recording Grand Piano?

[Chris Long]

Hi All
I am going to be recording a grand piano in a few weeks, and am thinking of getting a pair of 603s mics to do the job. I've heard decent things about them, especially considering their price, and was wondering if they are a reasonable choice for recording piano. The piece is a classical work--"Je Te Veux" by Erik Satie, a sort of romantic waltz piece.

I'm attracted to the 603s pair for their price/quality combination--but if there are some other possibilities I could look at, let me know. I want to spend no more than $200 USD. The recording is for the soundtrack to a video project, so it won't be subject to super-critical scrutiny, but I want to do a nice job.

Thanks for your input!
Chris

 

[lumbago]

Regardless of what mic you use, here are a few tips.

One is to set the first condenser approx midway up the strut that holds open the grand, facing into the strings (boom mic). the other is to set a second mic halfway down the piano (in the curved recess), facing across the centre of the soundboard towards the middle of the piano lid.

When you've recorded the piano, try a little EQ - 2kHz and 12kHz boosted by a couple of dB.

 

[Chris Long]

Thanks for the quick reply--
I've been studying up on mic placement around the piano, and what you mention is good info. I'll try a few things, and see what hits me the right way. Fortunately, there is no time constraint involved--I can set up and tweak the placements for nearly as long as I like.

I should have also said that I'll be recording into a Sony PDX-10 DVCAM video camera. It's capable of quite a nice quality sound, actually. It has XLR inputs and phantom on board; though I might experiment with using my AudioBuddy pre instead of the cam's.

 

[SteveMcB]

I've had good results with mxl603's in a more pop-rock context on grand piano. I used different positioning for each of the 3 songs I recorded. Try lots of different techniques. If you're doing it for a video, bear in mind that it's likely to be heard in mono a lot of the time and therefore mono-compatible mic technique like MS (not possible with 603's) or x-y might be best.

Steve

 

[DigitMus]

Hmm... If this is a solo piano piece, and it's being recorded in a good sounding room, forget about close-micing, and skip the cardioids. Get the best pair of omni SDCs (or LDCs) you can, beg, borrow, rent or buy. DPAs, Schoeps, or Earthworks come to mind. Set them up in AB configuration about 6 feet from the open side of the piano for a starting point, and then start some short test recordings, and adjust position until you get the right balance of room & direct sound.
I am a pianist with 4 pianos, almost 60 mics and decades of recording experience. What I outlined above will give you the most traditional "pro" sound for the type of material you'll be recording. If you're not looking for that sound, go ahead & experiment.

Scott

 

[Chris Long]

Thanks all, your responses are valuable and appreciated.

Steve--you're right, the mono mix is an important point. In fact, in mixing a previous piano part of the same soundtrack, I recorded in an X/Y arrangement to good effect. The other piano was an upright, and I used a (very!) mixed pair of a SM57 and an cheap CAD dynamic. Turned our OK, actually; good enough for the video's purposes. And a stereo mix is somewhat lost on the audience, listening through the average TV speakers.

Scott--unfortunately, the room is not particularly good, it's just an average living room of a home. Fairly dead soncially. I will try miking from a distance, and see how that sounds, too. Thanks!


To revisit a point: are the 603s mics good at reproducing piano? Is there another mic that I might look at, at the same price point? I've even thought "Why not get another SM57 and use a pair of them?" I suppose I could get away with them...

but then I'd miss out on getting some new mics...

 

[Michael Jones]

I used the 603's on a 7'-2" Boston Semi Concert Grand.

Not my first choice of mike for grand, but you'll get decent results with them.

What pre-amps are you using?

 

[Michael Jones]

Just read your last post.

I also used a pair of SM57's on the above mentioned grand.

Pre-amps are the key with these mics. Use a cheap pre, and you'll be sorely dissapointed.

You can listen to the 57's thru the API pre's here:
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1656&alid=-1

Sorry, I don't have the 603's on-line anymore.

My mic choices for micing a grand for classical music are:
Neumann KM184's - Nice, detailed, very accurate reproduction.

Shure SM81's - Not as detailed as the Nuemans, but cheaper, and still gives a fantastic sound.

MXL 603's - usable, but I'd rather the 81's if available.

Neumann TLM103's - LD condenser. Don't use these if your looking for accurate reproduction, but the mic provides a VERY, VERY pleasent sound!

Hear the TLM 103's on the 7'-2" Boston on the song titled December's Mist at the above link.

As far as placement goes, you're going to have to experiment.
PM me if you want further details on that.

 

[SteveMcB]

I think personally that you're not going to get much better than the 603's at the price. And the crispness and clarity you would miss with the 57's (plus the 603's versatility - I use them for acoustic guitar, percussion, and overheads) is well worth it. You could go for other mics though.

A pair of behringer ecm8000's - omni, a bit noisy, mono compat issues as best way to use would be as a spaced pair.

A pair of oktava mc012s - similar to 603's, maybe a bit cheaper at GC given recent deals

A pair of studio projects B1's - LD, less accurate, but could sound good

Or, and this is a bit out of left field - one of any of the above and a B3 to use in fig-8 pattern for MS - total mono compatibility

But I've used the 603's, and I think they sound great if you work on the positioning. I haven't used the higher end ones that Michael Jones is talking about, but I'm sure they are nicer. But in the buget category, the 603's do well.

Good luck,
Steve

 

[Chris Long]

Thanks all, lots of great info. I think I'll have fun with this little project.

As a wild card, a friend just told me he had an AT822 stereo mic I could borrow. This is both good and bad. Good, because it probably sounds great, is already arrayed like an X/Y pair, and so is mono compatible...bad because it gives me less reason to buy some new mics

I like your recordings, Michael. Sounds like a great instrument.

And Steve, the B3 did cross my mind (would love to have one), used in concert with another single mic, but I think (don't know enough about a MS mix to confirm or deny this) that I'd have to process the sum of the two to get a mono mix, and I'm not sure what's involved with that.

Thanks again!

 

[darrin_h2000]

I keep a pair of PZMs taped to the lid and cover it with blankets while halfway down. I think I read Parsons does it that way.

 

[sloop]

If you want a different sound

I did a really cool stereo mix of a solo on our grand. I placed one cardiod condenser so the pattern was focused on the bass side and one that concetrated its pattern on the treble. It took some playing around to get it smooth. When played back it sounded like you were setting in the middle of the strings.
It was a very full stereo sound--not your normal piano recording.