4 track-8 track cassette question

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Rimshot

Rimshot

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This is Home Recording dot com, so this is a real amateur homerecorder question.

I am buying another 4 track recorder in about a month. I'm thinkng about the Tascam 424 MkIII but I am also interested in the Tascam 488 which is an 8 track. I have also been told to check out a used Yamaha MT series.
I will be recording drum tracks onto existing vocal and instrumental tracks for people that I am working with so that we can share ideas. My mixer is pretty good (Yamaha MG 16/4) and my mics are pretty good (I'm using a total of 9 mics,2 Oktava Mk219's as overheads, an ATM25 on kick, e604's on snare and RS 330-3032 on toms, SM57 on hi-hat)
I have had to live with recording my drums onto one track and although it sounds good, I would like to have the ability to do further mixing after recording(Ihave one of the real little Tascam 4 tracks right now). I would like to feed the snare and kick and hi-hat to one track, the toms to another and the overheads to the remaining leaving the vocal and instrumental track on one. The idea of having 8 tracks is even more appealing. But is there a lot of track bleed on an 8 track cassette recorder? It's such a narrow tape.
Cost is a major consideration here, I am not a wealthy man. I am gradually upgrading my equipment step by step. Eventually I will probably get into a more sophisticated analog recorder. Bt I'm still learning the ropes right now and I'm not recording publish worthy recordings, just demos of ideas for fellow musicians and friends.But I want to improve gradually.
I prefer the sound of analog even when I then transfer it to disk, the sound of analog is still there. (I use an RCA home stereo consumer quality cd burner, and I'm pleased enough with the quality for now)
I'm pretty set on the Tascam 424 MkIII, but if the 488 is an okay unit, I may bite the bullet and go the extra for it.
What say you all? And is the discontinued Yamaha a worthy unit to check out? I have a month before my next big pay check comes in (damn summer teaching wages), so I have time to investigate and ask a lot of questions.
Thanks in advance.
 
I'm not going to be tons of help but I used to record on a Tascam 238 cassette 8 track many years ago. No appreciable cross talk between tracks and fidelity was pretty good BUT analog is not how I'd describe the sound of cassette based recorders of ANY kind. They sound more like, well, cassettes. When I hear people wax nostalgic about the sound of analog, that's 2" tape, not cassettes but I suppose that's neither here nor there. I normally use 7 tracks for a typicle kit (two rack toms, floor tom, single kick). Inside the kick, or if there's no hole in the front head, tight on the beater, top of the snare only, one between the rack toms, one on the floor tom, two overheads and an LDC out in front of the kit.I think I could be happy without the two tight mics on the toms and get that down to five tracks. In days of old when I was tracking to the 238 I did drums in three tracks, kick in one, snare one another and a mix of the toms and overheads sub mixed to a third. At least I still had some mix control over the most important elements that way.
 
Thanks Track Rat. Yeah, I know you're right about cassettes, but I'm taking this one step at a time. I have no dillusions about becoming a professional sound engineer. Fortunately I make my living teaching and playing for scale once in a while. Someday, who knows, maybe I'll be able to afford them slightly broader tapes, but I don't think a 2" multi-track high speed is ever going to be in this poor guy's budget. I couldn't afford the maintainence,much less the machinery. :)
So you have me thinking that I may not be happy settling for the 424 MkIII and I'd probably be happier with the 488. This is all I'm capable of dealing with right now. When I've recorded, it's been in digital studios and they all get great sound, but it's a different sound than tape. I really like the sound of tape, even cassette tape. With good noise control, hissing isn't really an issue. I've been transferring some of my favorite old commercially produced cassette tapes and vinyls from my collection to cd and I run the signal through my board and just with good EQ, I've been able to save some great recordings with practically no tape hiss, needle scratches on the old vinyls and shellacs is a bit of a problem, so I quickly learn my limits.
 
Understanding the limitations of cassette-based portastudios / multitracks can help you make some pretty impressive-sounding recordings with them. Only use high-bias Maxell, TDK, or Sony UX-Pro cassettes, 60-minutes or under. Keep the input signal hot enough to get a good solid signal to tape but not so hot that it causes unnecessary distortion. Leave the dbx noise reduction "on" at all times. Don't record signals with lots of transients or high end on the edge tracks (1 & 8). Use an outboard pre-amp or pre-amps (such as those in your mixing console) and not the stock pres on the multitracker. Record with the pitch control turned up all the way, if possible or practical. Clean and demagnetize regularly.

I'd recommend getting a Tascam 488MKII or a Yamaha MT8X (or MT8XII, if you can find one). Either of those can be had on e-bay for between U.S. $250-$350, sometimes cheaper. I've made recordings on those machines that still soud surprising to me, though of course they can't compare to the current crop of digital gear. If nothing else, they make excellent "scratch pad" multitrackers that allow you to refine your skills as a home recordist.
 
That's really the best thing about cassette multitracks, they are a great educational tool. I doubt that the average gazillion options computer recorder knows what it takes to make four very narrow tracks rock the way an experienced cassette tracker can. By the time you can compose clean, strong sounding songs on cassette the recording world will open up to your skills by way of new better gear that you will actually need. In the final days of my cassette studio I was bouncing a bass track to a mono drum track for track one, two guitars and some synth element on one and two extra tracks for vocals with every empty spot filled with something punched in.

By the time I started to record on computer I KNEW what was essential to getting a groove.
 
:D I'de go with 8trks, once you've used one, 4 trks won't be enough. The 488 is or was very good, no longer in production, If you can find a really good condition 688, you will be spoiled for life.



da MUTT
 
Rimshot said:
But I'm still learning the ropes right now and I'm not recording publish worthy recordings, just demos of ideas for fellow musicians and friends.But I want to improve gradually.
I prefer the sound of analog even when I then transfer it to disk, the sound of analog is still there.

Even though you feel that your songs aren't "publish worthy", you most likely still want them to sound good.

I'm pretty set on the Tascam 424 MkIII, but if the 488 is an okay unit, I may bite the bullet and go the extra for it.

Take it from someone who has traveled this path...you WILL tire of being limited to 4 tracks quickly.
The 424 is a nice machine, but capabilities are limited.

Good luck with your decision!

Denver
Click to expand...
 
Wait a minute! Don't get me wrong here, the music that I'm adding drum tracks to is top-notch stuff, and I've had the priviledge of working with some great musicians and songwriters. Any publishable recording is done in a professional digital studio,
or a top of the line home project studio. What I'm talking about is my feeble efforts at recording working tracks.I know my engineering is amateurish at best, and I'm looking to improve so that what I hear on my recording is listenable. (The only reason that I'm writing this is because some of the musicians that I work with frequent this board, and I don't want them to think that I'm saying their music sucks, because it doesn't, it's my recording that sucks, but I'm getting better at it.) I have a friend that posts on this board that I'm doing some project work with. He has a project home studio that is awesome and he gets great sound. I'm jealous. I wanna learn this stuff "more betterer."

Hi Keilson. Yeah, I know you're from Lynbrook, remember how I told you to check out LI Drum Center for cymbals? PM me sometime. My ex lives down in
Hewlett and I visit regularly.

BTW I am taking this one baby step at a time and I've decided to go with a used 424 that was offered to me here. I think my next step will be to a 16 track 1/2", but that will be in the future once I've sort of mastered the 424. I have a very sophisticated Mac in my studio that I use for graphic work and I could very easily outfit with a good soundcard, but call me crazy, I really like the sound of tape.
 
I would go looking for a Fostex R8 that is in good shape,
Its about the same price as the other units your looking at and
a big jump in quality.
 
Thanks Herm,
I will check that out as a future possibiity. Do you have one? Do you like it? The only Fostex products that I know about is a friend that has one of their digital stand alones and he curses it regularly. Of course he curses me and everyone else regularly too, so I don't know why I was put off by their products. (I'm not new to drums and music, but I'm real knew to this recording thing, so I'm asking around a lot.)
 
I got a Fostex A-8, and it sounds great. The R8 surely doesn't sound worse, it's just a more modern version of it with leds instead of VU meters and stuff.
 
traxx

I would get the 8-tracker with the most versatile mixer,probably the Yamaha MT8XII.
 

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