4 Guitar Parts, no definition

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lucky13

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I'm working on a song that has 4 guitar parts. 3 are throughout the entire song, and the fourth is through the bridge and the last verse. I've tried different panning and eq settings but I can't get any deffinition between the different guitar tones. They all have distortion, are there some problem frequencies I could cut to get more seperation?
 
EQ might help, but I'm thinking more about mic placement, or even guitar gear to begin with. Generally, these are some things I try to remember in these kinds of situations:
- Definition is difference. Make the tones different by changing amps, guitars, mics, mic placement (one on axis, one on axis but near the edge of the speaker, one off axis, one a little further back etc.).
- More distortion is less definition. Think of the 1khz tone you hear on the test channel of the tv. That's super clear and clean, because it's only 1 frequency. The more frequencies you add, the less clear it's gonna be. Distorted guitars have a LOT of sonic material. If your stacking 3 or 4 tracks on top each other, that's gonna give you even more overtones, reducing definition. Turn the distortion per track down. If a track sounds too clean by itself, stick with it and check how it sounds in the mix. If it's still not enough, turn it up.
- More mids, less treble and bass. Bass is for the bass guitar. That's my theory at least. Highs are for everyone, but guitars can get real screatchy really fast if you have too much treble. Mids are where guitars shine.

Good luck! :)
 
Well said, halion. I discovered a while back that getting a heavy guitar tone didn't necessarily mean cranking the gain all the way up. When I turned the gain knob down, and the mids up, the "wall of mud" disappeared. This is probably the most common mistake I've noticed among those struggling with heavy guitars.
 
This is one of the first recordings I made. It was recorded about a year and a half ago, unfortunately tracking again is not an option, I have to "fix it in the mix" which I know is never good. They are all great tones, I recorded it at school w/ Neuman mics into an SSL console recorded to 2" 24 track tape. I didn't change mic placement or any settings between takes, so I think you're right in saying that was the problem. Should I maybe try a low pass and high pass filter on a couple of the tracks?
 
Why not just play it again? In situations like this I like to use the different gear/different setting/different amp and micing methods as stated above. Although an acoustic part sounds nice from time to time too.
 
Since it's al recorded already, you could try some different eq on each track, and maybe some slightly different FX settings on each...slight amount of verb on one, small delay or chorus somewhere....that kind of thing.

Just some suggestions...good luck man...
 
if you're still up for another suggestion:

Normally I would suggest the EQing until the other day when I got some tracks from gainsville. The distortion was high gain and of little definition. So I realized how much I was talking my own style for granted.

I told the guy, "look man, I'm sorry but I can't work with this". I've heard the guitar and the set up live before and it sounds amazing! Mesa Triple Rectifier, Gibson Black Beauty...I mean it's top of the line stuff.

They just didn't capture it in the recording! Which is odd to me.

Sometimes there's no amount of EQing or processing that can be done to fix a unsufficiently recorded track. Lower than normal gain is a help for clarity, while high gain helps in driving the song, reinforcement if you will.

Of course you can try adding some crunch in your 2-4khz region. Sometimes I shoot for edge at 7khz. Then when that dosn't work, I try FX.

-I might sift through different variations of exciters.

-If that dosn't work, I try delays with different settings

-If that dosn't work, I try a doubler or light chorus.

-If that dosn't work, then I try to take the time to reamp the guitar through a good preamp or specific outboard unit to try and swing it in favor of the mix.


As much as I can agree that "any good engineer can work with whatever they got", I wouldn't avoid swinging things in my favor.

In other words, if you are listening to the soloed distortion tracks and they fail to stand out strong and definied (in your opinion), then you're going to have a hard mix to work with.

I think the best option is to take the sweet time of getting it to sound exactly how they want it to sound (plus a little extra exageration) on the recording, to then have strong tracks to work with in the mix stage.
 
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