-10 vs +4 -- line level shifter?

[lilcapn]

hi --

i've got the tascam trs-8 reel to reel, and an older soundcraft spirit board; i believe the tape machine is -10db (right?) and the board +4.

has anyone used the EbTech line level shifter in a situation like this?

they have an 8-channel version that seems like it would be great --- wondering how to set it up so that i could go back and forth (from the board to the tape machine, then from the machine through the board for mixdown) without having to unplug a bunch of cords each time --- maybe it's not possible...

thanks for any guidance here!

 

[sjjohnston]

I haven't used the EbTech box, but it looks like what you want.

It should be pretty easy to use -- I suspect that you just patch all the -10 outputs to tape deck inputs, and all the -10 inputs to tape deck outputs -- then you can use the +4 inputs and outputs as if they were the inputs and outputs of the tape deck. Patching and the like is no harder than it was before. If anything, it may be easier.

Depending on your mixer set-up, it may be possible to go without a line-level shifter, but it's probably not a great idea in this situation.

 

[lilcapn]

but with a patchbay....

as i'm often going straight from an outboard pre to the tape deck (via the patchbay), i guess i'd need to go to the ebtech each way VIA the patchbay, correct?

hate to add that extra trip through a patch bay into the signal path, but i guess it's worth it for the level-matching and hum elimination....i guess...still trying to work it all out mentally before taking the plunge.

thanks for the input!

 

[FivePastNine]

The line-level-shifter will work, but it may affect your sound a little bit.

 

[lilcapn]

adversely?

and if so, adversely enough to be worse than the noise i'll get from cranking up the -10 signal from the reel-to-reel? i was hoping it would affect my sound in a good way (hum eliminator, matching the level, etc) but i've never had to deal with these issues before.

thanks!

 

[sjjohnston]

Re: but with a patchbay....

as i'm often going straight from an outboard pre to the tape deck (via the patchbay), i guess i'd need to go to the ebtech each way VIA the patchbay, correct?

I'm not sure I completely follow, but I take it what you're thinking about is whether to run the connection between the Ebtech outputs and the tape deck inputs through a patchbay?

Yeah, I guess you would need to do that to preserve your ability to connect either a +4 or a -10 signal to the tape deck (i.e. to go through the Ebtech box or not).

Generally, I don't think running through the patchbay should be a big downside, so long as your patchbay isn't 15 feet away or something. It is sort of a waste of patchpoints and cables, though.

The obvious alternatives would be: (i) always use the Ebtech for tape deck inputs -- this would mean that you'd need to get a +4 signal out of all your outboard mic preamps or (ii) never use the Ebtech for tape deck inputs -- this would mean that you'd need to keep all the tracking outputs from your outboard preamps and your board to about -10.

The latter is actually not that hard to do. You just reduce the output level of whatever's going to the recorder by ~12 dB (which is all the Ebtech box does anyway).

It's the other direction where the Ebtech box is really more important, since running a -10 signal into a tape return on your mixer which expects a +4 signal won't work well and may not work at all. And you should be able just to leave it "permanently" in place there, since you probably don't run tape deck outputs a lot of places other than the mixer.

 

[lilcapn]

Re: Re: but with a patchbay....

I'm not sure I completely follow, but I take it what you're thinking about is whether to run the connection between the Ebtech outputs and the tape deck inputs through a patchbay?

well, i'm not sure i completely follow my OWN thinking on this stuff sometimes, but i think you get what i'm trying to do.

of the two options you suggest: (i) always use the Ebtech for tape deck inputs -- this would mean that you'd need to get a +4 signal out of all your outboard mic preamps

right, so that any signal, from the board OR a mic pre would have to be +4, which some of my outboard pres likely are, but maybe not all...

and

ii) never use the Ebtech for tape deck inputs -- this would mean that you'd need to keep all the tracking outputs from your outboard preamps and your board to about -10.

ie, just make sure you're not blasting the deck with terribly hot signals -- this sounds do-able

It's the other direction where the Ebtech box is really more important, since running a -10 signal into a tape return on your mixer which expects a +4 signal won't work well and may not work at all. And you should be able just to leave it "permanently" in place there, since you probably don't run tape deck outputs a lot of places other than the mixer.

the only other place i'd be running the signal from the tape-outs would be to my VS-1680 directly. i THINK the 1680 is -10 also, so in this case would i need the option of going AROUND the Ebtech to go into the 1680?

ie should i have the routing as TRS-8 -- Patchbay -- normalled to Ebtech -- out of Ebtech to Spirit board, so that i could break the normal and come out of the patchbay straight into the 1680 if i wanted to dump the tracks right in there?

thanks for helping me think this through "out loud"!