1/4" Tape Question

[Illsidgus]

Hi All,
Before I joined this Forum, I did not know there was a difference in r/r tapes. Since becoming a member I have read a lot of posts about Quantegy 456 tape and I think some other brand 631 etc. Just to be clear, I have an old Akai 1722w that I use for my mastering deck. I know it is not a mastering deck, but this is what I have to work with.

The r/r tapes I have to work with I purchased sometime between 1999 and 2002. I have six Maxell (XLI)s, three 35-90s and three 35-90Bs. I also have seven Radio Shack "Studio Quality, Recording Tape, Laboratory Standard." They are "High Output 1800." They are as yet still sealed.

Given the equipment I have to work with and the fact that I am recording for my own enjoyment with no thoughts of become a great recording engineer or artists...Do I need to look into purchasing 456 or 631 tapes or will the tapes I have be adequate? BTW when I purchased the tapes I have, they where $12.95 each.

Thanks for any thoughts or input.

 

[miroslav]

I can't tell you what are the best tape choices for that particular deck, but no...you don't need to specifcally buy 456.

That Maxell should be fine though.

 

[wkrbee]

Pick a tape,and have your machine re-biased/setup for the tape you are using-this will give you the best performance from your Akai.The only two companies that I know of that are selling new tape stock are ATR Magnetics,(which I use), and RMG.Most ofthe Maxell does not exhibit the "sticky shed"sydrome that affects most Ampex and Quantegy.

 

[Beck]

The Maxell you have are excellent tapes… every bit as good for mastering as anything else and superior to Ampex 631. 456 has a status of being standard for professional use, however there are many others that are 456 compatible, AKA bias compatible. The best known that is still with us because it never had sticky-shed is SM911 made by BASF, EMTEC and now RMGI. Other 456 compatibles that were great when they came out but should now be avoided due to Sticky-Shed are Scotch 226 and AGFA 469

Not sure if I’m reading what you listed right, but Maxell XLI and 35-90B are identical tapes, just slight differences in labels over the years. XL and XLI 35-90B are backcoated (That’s what the B stands for). They changed the name from XL to XLI when they introduced a high bias tape for reel-to-reel known as XLII. The XLII for open-reel is similar formulation to the cassette XLII, but most decks aren’t set up for them. In reel-to-reel terms high bais tape is known as EE (Extra Efficiency) and if you can use them your reel-to-reel deck will have a switch usually labeled EE.

631 is not a great tape. It’s not in the mastering class of audiotape, though some surely like it and it suits the sound they’re looking for. The Radio Shack tapes are not bad and rumor has it the Studio Quality RS tape is Ampex 642, which is a step above 632/631. Ampex 631 is described by Ampex as a voice-grade tape, while 642 is higher output and described as music grade in Ampex documentation.

You have some great tapes there, especially the Maxell XL/XLI 35-90B. I have quite a bit of that myself. UD 35-90 is also a fine tape, but not as high output as 35-90B and it doesn’t have backcoating.

Other good tapes to look for in the same class as Maxell 35-90B are Quantegy 407 and Scotch 207. But the Maxell you have is to a fully professional standard and it’s always had a good fan base for mastering use. And Maxell will last forever because it’s made with a different binder that is not prone to sticky-shed syndrome. I have sealed UD 35-90 and XL 35-90B from the late 70’s and it’s as good as new stock… and will be 20 years from now.

Hey, by the way I see you're in South Central Kentucky. My family was in Wayne and Clinton Counties for over 100 years before my grandfather came to Illinois in early 1900's. I've visited down there a few times researching our ancestry. I've climbed Poplar Mountain near Albany to find the place where one of my ancestors was killed in the Civil War. One of my great grandfathers was a judge in Monticello and another was a circuit preacher who made his rounds by horse-drawn carriage I love it down there. Feels like going home.

 

[Illsidgus]

Not sure if I’m reading what you listed right, but Maxell XLI and 35-90B are identical tapes, just slight differences in labels over the years.....In reel-to-reel terms high bais tape is known as EE (Extra Efficiency) and if you can use them your reel-to-reel deck will have a switch usually labeled EE.

You are right, I did mislabel the 35-90, it is "UD". If I had only known back then, I would have bought a lot more of the 35-90B tapes. Now that I think about it, I purchased the Maxell tapes in 1997 while I was stationed in Germany. What is the bast way to erase those Maxell tapes? I used them to record some gigs my band played in Germany.

My Akia 1722w has a "Tape Selector Switch" labeled "Low Noise" and "Wide Range". The "Low Noise" setting is self explanatory but not sure what the "Wide Range" means.

Hey, by the way I see you're in South Central Kentucky. My family was in Wayne and Clinton Counties for over 100 years before my grandfather came to Illinois in early 1900's. I've visited down there a few times researching our ancestry. I've climbed Poplar Mountain near Albany to find the place where one of my ancestors was killed in the Civil War. One of my great grandfathers was a judge in Monticello and another was a circuit preacher who made his rounds by horse-drawn carriage I love it down there. Feels like going home.

I like it here in Kentucky, I am south of Bowling Green, not to far from the Tennessee border. I live in the country where it is fairly quite and my property has the obligatory sink hole on it. It is about 30' lower than my front yard. What part of Illinois are you in, I grew up in Illinois.

 

[jpmorris]

Pick a tape,and have your machine re-biased/setup for the tape you are using-this will give you the best performance from your Akai.The only two companies that I know of that are selling new tape stock are ATR Magnetics,(which I use), and RMG.Most ofthe Maxell does not exhibit the "sticky shed"sydrome that affects most Ampex and Quantegy.

Yeah, I'm sure the Akai can be adjusted to bias up for ATR tape - if you completely redesign the audio electronics from scratch.

 

[testube]

miss the cassette days...who need itunes?

 

[Illsidgus]

Yeah, I'm sure the Akai can be adjusted to bias up for ATR tape - if you completely redesign the audio electronics from scratch.

I agree with you, I don't think my Akai was designed for adjusting the bias on. This is not a studio recorder. Since adjusting the bias isn't an option, what tapes are out there now that I could use on it? I am sure that erasing the tapes over an over again will eventually degrade them and I will need to purchase new ones.

 

[Beck]

I agree with you, I don't think my Akai was designed for adjusting the bias on. This is not a studio recorder. Since adjusting the bias isn't an option, what tapes are out there now that I could use on it? I am sure that erasing the tapes over an over again will eventually degrade them and I will need to purchase new ones.

For that particular deck I recommend these based on suitability and availability:

First of all, more of what you have… Maxell XLI 35-90B, UD 35-90 and Radio Shack “Studio Quality Tape” RS part number 44-1884.

In addition look for these:

-Ampex or Quantegy 642 of any year (Never had sticky-shed)
-Ampex or Quantegy 407 made 1995 to 2005
-BASF/EMTEC LPR35 (RMGI LPR35 is ok, but more costly and IMO BASF is better)
-3m/Scotch 207 of any year
-Scotch Dynarange 212
-Scotch Highlander 229
- TDK AUDUA

Even with these choices I think you’ll be better off to stay with Maxell like you have if you can.

These are all 1-mil tapes with 1800 feet to a reel. Only use the 7.5 ips speed for best results and invest in an outboard Dolby B or C noise reduction unit if you don’t have one. Or a single ended noise reduction device like the older (Made in Germany) Behringer SNR202 Denoiser. The signal-to-noise ratio on the Akai 1722W is not great so even Dolby B Noise reduction would improve things quite a bit. The TEAC AN-80 is a great Dolby B unit and usually not too expensive on eBay (Until people read this post). There weren’t many outboard Dolby C units made. The Sony NR-500 Doby C unit and the Nakamichi NR-200 Dolby B&C Unit are two of the best.

The rest of the specs at 7.5 ips are actually not too bad and you should be able to make decent master tapes. Granted, you can do much better with even the simple and inexpensive Tascam 22-2 half-tack reel-to-reel and you may want to consider stepping up to that format at some point in the future. All the tapes above will work well on that too. The Akai 1700 series is pretty old technology… late 60’s to early 70’s.

Most tapes listed are no longer made but they’re in abundance new-old-stock on sites like eBay, Craigslist, Amazon and facebook marketplace. eBay is my number one source. Watch out for evil sellers, but there are plenty of great honest sellers with good product. If in doubt ask us here if you find tape you’re not sure about. Only buy NEW SEALED. Doesn’t matter how old it is if it’s on the good tape list and it’s never been used. If it’s used or open it’s a total crapshoot. A few sellers on eBay will sell you any crap they can find. Beware any seller who list tape as, “Tested” and tries to claim that’s a plus. Tested is just salesperson lingo for used.

Hope that helps

 

[Illsidgus]

The signal-to-noise ratio on the Akai 1722W is not great so even Dolby B Noise reduction would improve things quite a bit. The TEAC AN-80 is a great Dolby B unit and usually not too expensive on eBay (Until people read this post). There weren’t many outboard Dolby C units made. The Sony NR-500 Doby C unit and the Nakamichi NR-200 Dolby B&C Unit are two of the best.

I am pretty sure that I know the answer to this but am not 100% sure. Since my TASCAM 244 uses DBX noise reduction, shouldn't I use DBX for the Akai also? And thank you for your advice on the tapes, I will try to locate more Maxell 35-90Bs if I can.

 

[Blue Jinn]

You are recording and playing back on the 244, with dbx. You need to remember to encode and decode with whichever system you use on whichever deck. You could use dbx on the Tascam and dolby on the Akai, as long as you encode and decode with the same system on each deck. (Hopefully I'm not overcomplicating the explanation) YOu could also use dbx on the Akai, you need ot find a Type II unit though. E.g. the dbx 224.

 

[Beck]

I am pretty sure that I know the answer to this but am not 100% sure. Since my TASCAM 244 uses DBX noise reduction, shouldn't I use DBX for the Akai also? And thank you for your advice on the tapes, I will try to locate more Maxell 35-90Bs if I can.

Sorry I missed this until now.

No because each tape deck with it's noise reduction is a complete system by itself. So the Tascam 244 encodes the dbx while recording and decodes it during playback. What that means is the signal that comes out of the 244 is already denoised and complete. You can use any type of noise reduction or no noise reduction on the Akai.

That being said, if you bought an outboard dbx Type II unit to use with the Akai you could transfer undecoded dbx tracks to the Akai deck and decode them during the stereo transfer to digital stage. Since dbx does tend to accentuate bass frequencies when used while bouncing tracks there is a school of thought that says bounce dbx encoded tracks undecoded and only decode with dbx at the final mix stage. I think that's a good practice while bouncing tracks within the machine, but not really needed if your only bounce is to the mixdown deck.

I hope I'm not making this too confusing because these are more advanced concepts for use of dbx and mostly apply to multiple bounces. I would probably go with Dolby B or C in your case... or a single-ended NR unit that does not encode during recording and decode during playback. If you use single-ended, AKA non encode/decode NR, then you don't have to worry about needing to find a Dolby or dbx unit to play back your tapes in the future. You could use any single-ended NR like the Behringer Denoiser or use nothing at. Hope that all makes sense.

EDIT: Basically what Blue Jinn said, but I think I made it sound more difficult than it is... too wordy. I have to work on that.

 

[Illsidgus]

Sorry I missed this until now. No because each tape deck with it's noise reduction is a complete system by itself. So the Tascam 244 encodes the dbx while recording and decodes it during playback. What that means is the signal that comes out of the 244 is already denoised and complete. You can use any type of noise reduction or no noise reduction on the Akai.

Let me see if I am understanding this correctly. Firstly, as you probably know, the DBX on the 244 is always on. There is not an option to turn it on or off. So that means that the signal that I send to the Akai is as clean as I am going to get it so I don't really need to use more noise reduction at this stage. But if I send the signal from the Akai to my computer for processing it wouldn't hurt to use some noise reduction between the Akai and the computer.

Pleas let me know if I have understood this correctly. Thanks.

Doei

 

[Beck]

Yes, you just about got it. And the fact that Tascam designed the 244 with dbx always on should help you see it as the complete system it was designed to be... mixer, recorder with dbx NR all in one. There is a mod for it that allows you to switch dbx off on all tracks or just track 4 if using that track for time code for synchronization. But yes, as designed the 244 dbx NR cannot be defeated. On the next model 246, which I still have, switches were added to the back so you could switch dbx off on all tracks or just track 4.

The main thing to remember is that another tape deck being used with the Tascam 244 can use any kind of noise reduction or none if you prefer. With your Akai you might be able to get away without using NR (Noise Reduction) while recording and just use a single-ended NR unit for playback. However, using a separate dbx or Dolby unit for the Akai will be a bit better because that deck has a good bit of noise in the input electronics. Encode/decode companding NR units like dbx or Dolby will help you squeeze the best performance, but you may find through experimenting that a single-ended NR unit between the Akai outputs and the inputs of your digital interface does the trick.