I Don't Use Verses and Choruses, Good or Bad?

unclehando

Member
I like telling stories, you know? Am I compromising catchiness and hooks to grab people in?

I repeat certain lines like these songs. But when I write songs its more like poems, what do you guys think?



 
There are so many conventions if they work, they work - and almost certainly you'll find something historic that sort of justifies it. I often do music that just evolves and while similar, doesn't have repeated sections at or, or if it does, it might just be a little riff or repeated melody that pops back time after time. I've been arranging a piece of old Mozart. It's long, but is just a load of little shorter sections joined together. There are similar little themes, but played very differently - so it's not got the structure that is typical of that period in music. If you tell the story, then verses and chorus are irrelevant. Music has rules, and one is that you can break a rule if you do it well. Do it badly and the rule bites.

However - your piece does have verses and a chorus - the chorus being where the multiple voices come in for the first time. The snag in categorisation is because it's a rather repetitive composition. One chord stretches tolerance a little, especially as nothing really happens, and there really isn't a story is there? the little repeated wanna tell a story is fine. The only problem with this kind of music is it's a circular journey, there's no real end - it just stops.

In the second song - there are implied chords in there but what spoilt it for me was the rhythm of the vocal - it wasn't in time and sounded like it was recorded without the backing and just slapped on top. There was a line about the metronome - and ironically that might have helped you with the performance - it was all over the place timing wise which was a shame as the treated vocal sounded better than in the first recording.
 
No verses and choruses, good or bad?

General rule number 1: listeners like a mixture of the familiar and the novel. So songs that generally work better are those that give listeners patterns and structures that they are used to and comfortable with. But if you do nothing else, you will lose them, because there is nothing to grab their attention. On the other hand, if the song is nothing but musical surprises, you will also lose them, because there is nothing for them to latch onto.

Verses and choruses provide familiarity. But so do repeated lines and melodic hooks. Repetition of musical elements is how you generate comfort in a listener. But too much generates boredom.
 
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Yea I see how I might have choruses and verses just not clearly. they are not big and catchy. its ok. Yea I'm on this new phase of transitioning from making electronic instrumental videogame music, to more me singer songwriter songs. I tend to focus too much on vocals now and just have a looped song in the background. so I have to go back to my old style of writing songs, so I'm trying now to add vocals to my old compositions, they were so much better musically, and I'm very proud of my younger self lol. I found my old fl studio project files so its been fun, tweaking them with the knowledge I have now, and my new confidence singing.
 
Reading the OP, I was instantly reminded of Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. These bands had structure and cyclical forms, but very few of what we would consider choruses.
 
Reading the OP, I was instantly reminded of Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. These bands had structure and cyclical forms, but very few of what we would consider choruses.
In a sense, the cyclical forms played the parts of choruses in quite a few Zep and Sab songs.
 
He had a few 'proper' choruses but I suppose not that many.
He definitely understood benefits or repetition and familiarity, though.

How many times would he repeat some opening or ending phrase, or some variation on one phrase?
'If you see her say hello', 'It's alright, Ma', 'Shelter from the storm', 'Don't think twice', 'Blowing in the wind', 'It ain't me'.

The shorter the chorus the more room you have for long verses. :ROFLMAO:
 
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If you can lure the listeners in , and keep them interested, they will not care for verse or chorus, as long that its entertaining enough for them. Keeping in mind that youngsters these days have been made used to 10sec movies on tiktok you'll have to catch them at thet beginning of your song , but thats it.
 
My influence is with Classical music... then the Beatles, but then Jazz. I rarely 'repeat' anything in my songs... it's a progression (prog rock), which is nothing like pop radio.
Do Your Thing!
 
My influence is with Classical music... then the Beatles, but then Jazz. I rarely 'repeat' anything in my songs... it's a progression (prog rock), which is nothing like pop radio.
Do Your Thing!
I love classical, the Beatles and jazz in its various offshoots and forms.
I get what you mean about not repeating but repetition can be crucial for pieces, even in classical, avant~garde and jazz. As ever it really depends on the piece/song in question. I don't approach a piece of music or song with either rule that there must be or must not be anything repeated. It will be what it will be and I'm at home with both.
The other thing with repetition is that inversions or alternates can be used instead of specific repetition which give the impression of repetition.
 
I love classical, the Beatles and jazz in its various offshoots and forms.
I get what you mean about not repeating but repetition can be crucial for pieces, even in classical, avant~garde and jazz. As ever it really depends on the piece/song in question. I don't approach a piece of music or song with either rule that there must be or must not be anything repeated. It will be what it will be and I'm at home with both.
The other thing with repetition is that inversions or alternates can be used instead of specific repetition which give the impression of repetition.
Perhaps a modern example is Tubular Bells... there are repeats, yet diverse and expressive in different ways.
 
I think Ennio Morricone did this really well, how he repeated but in a way that was just incredible Final Duel . Mozart repeated himself with his hooks very often, what comes to repeats: Fur Elise. Just a couple of examples, but I think repeats have been used for a long time in popular music not sure how you hook the listener without something to draw them in.
 
I like telling stories, you know? Am I compromising catchiness and hooks to grab people in?

I repeat certain lines like these songs. But when I write songs its more like poems, what do you guys think?




What are lyrics but poems set to music? There’s no difference to me and when I decided upon that, I felt a relief because I never have to say to myself , “okay I’m working on lyrics not poetry….”
 
I think there is a difference between poems and lyrics. With poems you have to construct a rhythm through a choice of words. With lyrics, the song itself provides the rhythm, and the words don't need to supply it.
 
I think there is a difference between poems and lyrics. With poems you have to construct a rhythm through a choice of words. With lyrics, the song itself provides the rhythm, and the words don't need to supply it.
But words have to fit into the melody, so you have to choose the right words and their placement in order for it all to work. Also, there’s plenty a free verse or blank verse without intended rhythm.
 

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But words have to fit into the melody, so you have to choose the right words and their placement in order for it all to work. Also, there’s plenty a free verse or blank verse without intended rhythm.
Sure. You have to choose the right words. But those right words don'y need to define the rhythm. The rhythm is determined by the structure of the song.

And yes, there is plenty of free verse or blank verse around.

But that doesn't invalidate the broad difference.
 
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