Looking for an interface recommendation for recording my band

[rokyerick666]

My band has been recording with a Tascam Model 12 Mixer/Recorder for a couple years now. Can't say it has served us well. Our recordings always felt pretty flat (assuming this has to do with the quality of the pres). We are looking to upgrade to something that will last us a while. Hoping to find something on the used market roughly around $800-$1,200

We record vocal, drums, 2 guitars, bass and keys typically all at once. I was originally looking at the rme fireface 800 but got scared off with the whole firewire going out of date thing. I do all my mixing on Windows 10.

Here is what I need (i think)

USB interface with 16 inputs 8 preamps
How we will record

• 4 mics for drums
• 2 mics for guitars
• 1 mic for the bass
• 1 mic for vocals
• keys can just be line in

Any recommendations, opinions etc? We are going for a warm sound. Mainly record rock/alt country stuff. Any tips would be appreciated!

 

[TalismanRich]

I don't know about recommendations, there are lots of alternatives. Scarlett 18i20, Clarett+8pre, Motu 8Pre, PreSonus Quantum HD 8, Tascam 16x08. The vast majority of these interfaces are going to be fairly flat as far as their frequency response. If you set up mics with a hot top end, you're going to get a recording with a hot top end. I find that mics make far more difference in overall balance than the preamp itself unless you buy preamps that are designed to have a "character" (rolled off top, overdriving, etc.) This comparison of a lowly 16x08 vs and Apogee Symphony is interesting.



I'm more interested in why you think that it's the mic pres in the Tascam that are making your recordings sound flat. There are numerous instances of good recordings done with the Model 12, 16 and 24. From what I've heard, they make pretty darn good recordings.



What's your room like, what mics are you using for what puproses? That would be my first lines of attack.

 

[Dave Matthews]

Zoom L-20 might fit the bill as well. Can record to SD card, or straight into DAW.

 

[rob aylestone]

If you are a band, doing gigs, what is your mixer for the PA? Things like the X32 now go second hand for sensible money and have 32 outs on USB, so you get a decent mixer for the band with the byproduct of making recording really easy?

 

[RFR]

I don't know about recommendations, there are lots of alternatives. Scarlett 18i20, Clarett+8pre, Motu 8Pre, PreSonus Quantum HD 8, Tascam 16x08. The vast majority of these interfaces are going to be fairly flat as far as their frequency response. If you set up mics with a hot top end, you're going to get a recording with a hot top end. I find that mics make far more difference in overall balance than the preamp itself unless you buy preamps that are designed to have a "character" (rolled off top, overdriving, etc.) This comparison of a lowly 16x08 vs and Apogee Symphony is interesting.



I'm more interested in why you think that it's the mic pres in the Tascam that are making your recordings sound flat. There are numerous instances of good recordings done with the Model 12, 16 and 24. From what I've heard, they make pretty darn good recordings.



What's your room like, what mics are you using for what puproses? That would be my first lines of attack.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

I was thinking of posting that Beatles cover video too.

 

[Chili]

If you are a band, doing gigs, what is your mixer for the PA? Things like the X32 now go second hand for sensible money and have 32 outs on USB, so you get a decent mixer for the band with the byproduct of making recording really easy?

I was thinking along the same line. I use the Behringer XR18 for FOH and for recording my bands. But it looks like the Tascam mixer mentioned by the OP can do the same thing.

OP, about that "felt pretty flat" part, that isn't caused by the interface. Tascam makes decent gear. If it doesn't sound good, then the cause is most likely the mix or the listening environment, probably the mix. Changing the interface isn't going to fix the flat sound.

 

[Joseph Hanna]

For me, and it's only me, and your mileage may vary greatly but from my hands-on experience (I own two Model 24s). I've concluded the Tascam pre's are exceptionally good particularly as to how many you get, great sonic's. as well. I do realize "my experience" means nothing round here, but for me, the mic pre's in the Model 24 are good bordering on great. That's just the conclusion I personally came to. I have a gaggle of mic pre's in my locker, including a couple of Grace, I dunno how many Focusrite Boxs I've managed to collect over the years ( I've had a good working relationship with Focusrite for several decades), a Limited release Chandler, an Avalon 737 (which was graciously given to me by Avalon), and an Art (which I actually really like), so even though it's just my personal perspective and personal opinion, I do have a backdrop of which I can makes some sonic judgments that here to for have appeal to me, especially compared to others floating around out there on the market.

It's just my personal opinion and personal perspective, and mileage may vary, but in most cases, concerning mic-pre quality in the Tascams, is that if you think those pre's are a problem (at least comparatively) you may be looking under the wrong rock.

 

[rob aylestone]

I don't think it's just you - many are wondering what the problem is. Mics, and positioning, plus the source sound make big differences - the equipment really just does it's thing. I don't think I've found any recording device that has bad preamps - going back to my early reel to reels, and then cassettes, elcassettes, MD, DAT - they all made great recordings. If the sound is 'flat', which might mean different things, it's probably wrong mic syndrome.

 

[jamesperrett]

I don't think I've found any recording device that has bad preamps.

While that is almost certainly true of modern devices, I can think of a few older devices where the pre-amps left something to be desired. My old MM mixer has a great sound but you don't want to record anything quiet through it unless you like the sound of frying chips. We also had an MTR mixer in our rehearsal room that made everything sound dull - I would imagine that it probably had an early high frequency roll-off although I never measured it. I also had an old Uher mixer before the MM which had headroom problems.

The only issues I've had with modern mic preamps have been a lack of headroom in certain Focusrite models and a very slightly higher noise floor than the best in my Zoom U44. I've used a Tascam Model 16 and, while it has its operational foibles, sound quality was never a problem. So I wouldn't blame the preamps in the Model 12 - there is almost certainly something else causing the problem and it is most likely to be down to issues with the source.

 

[Papanate]

My band has been recording with a Tascam Model 12 Mixer/Recorder for a couple years now. Can't say it has served us well. Our recordings always felt pretty flat (assuming this has to do with the quality of the pres).

The ‘Flatness’ has more to do with your recording method then your Mic Pres - Look at how you are Micing up your instruments — the arrangement of your song - how well you play your instruments - and what kind of mics you are using - a detail of you mics and technique would be helpful - and what effects you are using on the mixer.

 

[rob aylestone]

I was the principal examiner for music tec here in the UK for schools and colleges and years back when we had portastudios on cassette we were limited to just 4 mics, and they'd be budget types never expensive posh ones. Some colleges started buying the first really expensive analogue and digital ones when it took off, and not once did the gear get better marks - as they included photos, it was so clear it was the mic positions that made the big differences. Sometimes thin and flat was too much distance and poor 'aiming'.

 

[rokyerick666]

I don't know about recommendations, there are lots of alternatives. Scarlett 18i20, Clarett+8pre, Motu 8Pre, PreSonus Quantum HD 8, Tascam 16x08. The vast majority of these interfaces are going to be fairly flat as far as their frequency response. If you set up mics with a hot top end, you're going to get a recording with a hot top end. I find that mics make far more difference in overall balance than the preamp itself unless you buy preamps that are designed to have a "character" (rolled off top, overdriving, etc.) This comparison of a lowly 16x08 vs and Apogee Symphony is interesting.



I'm more interested in why you think that it's the mic pres in the Tascam that are making your recordings sound flat. There are numerous instances of good recordings done with the Model 12, 16 and 24. From what I've heard, they make pretty darn good recordings.



What's your room like, what mics are you using for what puproses? That would be my first lines of attack.

Hey thanks so much for your reply!

Yeah, could be a variety of things. I have been the main person recording and mixing our tracks over the past couple of years and still consider myself a complete beginner. I am still not even sure flat is the correct word to be using! We are currently working on improving things from a variety of angles but it sounds like the pres have less of an impact than I thought!

When it comes to our mics this is what a typical session looks like:

Drums: Glyn Jons Technique
- 2 sm57s for overheads
- EV-RE20 on the bass

Guitars
- a 57 close miced on each amp

Bass
DI

Keys
DI

Vocals
sm57 or EV-RE20

We record in an unfinished basement. Trash acoustics I'm sure. We have covered the ground in rugs and I am working on building some bass traps based on designs from https://ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html now.

End goal is a better sound so any advice you have no matter what subject would be greatly appreciated!

Here is a recording if that helps. Constructive criticism is more than welcome:

 

[rokyerick666]

I was thinking along the same line. I use the Behringer XR18 for FOH and for recording my bands. But it looks like the Tascam mixer mentioned by the OP can do the same thing.

OP, about that "felt pretty flat" part, that isn't caused by the interface. Tascam makes decent gear. If it doesn't sound good, then the cause is most likely the mix or the listening environment, probably the mix. Changing the interface isn't going to fix the flat sound.

Gotcha that makes sense appreciate your input! I am working on some acoustic treatment for both our recording room and mixing room now so I am hoping it makes a big impact.

 

[rokyerick666]

For me, and it's only me, and your mileage may vary greatly but from my hands-on experience (I own two Model 24s). I've concluded the Tascam pre's are exceptionally good particularly as to how many you get, great sonic's. as well. I do realize "my experience" means nothing round here, but for me, the mic pre's in the Model 24 are good bordering on great. That's just the conclusion I personally came to. I have a gaggle of mic pre's in my locker, including a couple of Grace, I dunno how many Focusrite Boxs I've managed to collect over the years ( I've had a good working relationship with Focusrite for several decades), a Limited release Chandler, an Avalon 737 (which was graciously given to me by Avalon), and an Art (which I actually really like), so even though it's just my personal perspective and personal opinion, I do have a backdrop of which I can makes some sonic judgments that here to for have appeal to me, especially compared to others floating around out there on the market.

It's just my personal opinion and personal perspective, and mileage may vary, but in most cases, concerning mic-pre quality in the Tascams, is that if you think those pre's are a problem (at least comparatively) you may be looking under the wrong rock.

Really appreciate your input here. I think you may be right about looking under the wrong rock. We are working to improve the sound treatment in both the mixing room and the area we record in. I also think it's time to start looking at some new mics. A typical session for us looks like this:

Drums: Glyn Jons Technique
- 2 sm57s for overheads
- EV-RE20 on the bass

Guitars
- a 57 close miced on each amp

Bass
DI

Keys
DI

Vocals
sm57 or EV-RE20

Any input on what would have the largest impact here? I will say we are always working on mic placement etc so we are covered in that area (as much as we can be at least).

Here is a recording if that helps. Constructive criticism is more than welcome:

 

[rokyerick666]

The ‘Flatness’ has more to do with your recording method then your Mic Pres - Look at how you are Micing up your instruments — the arrangement of your song - how well you play your instruments - and what kind of mics you are using - a detail of you mics and technique would be helpful - and what effects you are using on the mixer.

Thank you so much for your reply! We are definitely working on arrangements. Slow and steady with that improvement but I can at least see improvement when looking at some of our songs from a couple of years ago. A typical session for us looks like this:

Drums: Glyn Jons Technique
- 2 sm57s for overheads
- EV-RE20 on the bass
Guitars
- a 57 close miced on each amp
Bass
DI
Keys
DI
Vocals
sm57 or EV-RE20

If you have any tips I would love to hear them! Whether it be on arrangements, recording etc. Here is one of our recent recordings. Constructive criticism is more than welcome:

 

[Chili]

The poor acoustic treatment in the basement isn't much of a concern for tracking, especially since you are DI'ing or close micing everything. Drums might be affected by the lack of treatment, but I doubt it is very much. The lack of treatment does come into play when mixing. However, you're not really going to hear a big difference in your studio. You'll hear the difference when you go to play the songs on different sound systems, like the car, friend's house, earbuds, etc. That's called translation and that is where acoustic treatment should pay off.

The song you posted didn't sound horrible, but with a bit of tweaking, you can get some nice improvements.

As a sidenote, Ethan used to hang out here a long time ago. You might still find his threads if you searched for them.

 

[rokyerick666]

The poor acoustic treatment in the basement isn't much of a concern for tracking, especially since you are DI'ing or close micing everything. Drums might be affected by the lack of treatment, but I doubt it is very much. The lack of treatment does come into play when mixing. However, you're not really going to hear a big difference in your studio. You'll hear the difference when you go to play the songs on different sound systems, like the car, friend's house, earbuds, etc. That's called translation and that is where acoustic treatment should pay off.

The song you posted didn't sound horrible, but with a bit of tweaking, you can get some nice improvements.

As a sidenote, Ethan used to hang out here a long time ago. You might still find his threads if you searched for them.

Gotcha that makes sense! I have never had translation explained to me before that is helpful to know. I actually found Ethan's site through this forum. Learning a lot here!

If I can bother you with one more question, is it possible for someone with experience like yourself to say what is particularly wrong with a mix? As a beginner, I am still feeling like "no that's not right but I have no idea why." With so many moving parts I am sure it is difficult to pinpoint exactly. But upon hearing that track was there anything that stood out to you? Even something general like it sounded a bit muddy would be helpful. Just trying to learn as much as I can so I can have a jump start on searching for how I can improve. Thank you!

 

[DM60]

When you are ready, post in the MP3 Clinic.

I gave it a quick listen, very salvageable. Some EQ here and there, better panning of the instruments you cold have a very good recording. But be forewarned, those little things are the hard part about mixing. Subtle is big in the recording/mixing game.

 

[rokyerick666]

When you are ready, post in the MP3 Clinic.

I gave it a quick listen, very salvageable. Some EQ here and there, better panning of the instruments you cold have a very good recording. But be forewarned, those little things are the hard part about mixing. Subtle is big in the recording/mixing game.

Thank you for your feedback! Will do!

 

[Ujn Hunter]

Recording sounds completely fine to me... you don't have a Recording issue... you just have an "expectation" issue where a Recording will equal a "Mixed" song, they don't. Mixing a song is a completely different skill and all the "best" mixes use Automation to their fullest. That's what usually separates a "good" mix from a "great" mix. Get a "good" static mix, then "perform" the mix. No pre-amp is going to bring what you already have to "another level".