Pen Penny Pen with JohnnyAmato and ibleedburgundy

R

Robus

Well-known member
New collaboration. Johnny sang all the vocals. Amazing arrangement of the harmony vox! Dave did the drums. I wrote the song and played everything else. Great work guys!

All comments welcome. Priority is the vocal mix. Thanks!

Latest mix:
MASTER_Pen Penny Pen_2018_Master 8.mp3 - Google Drive

Pen Penny Pen
Words and Music by Ray Taylor 2018

The way you blew into my town
Ricocheted through my door
Threw me down
Well I saw right then how you came on the wind
Of a hurricane, the calm within
The way the hall light lay upon your skin

You said only hell could ever catch us
Well dead or damned it’s all the same
But I’ll stand right here by your side if you want me
You can deputize or bust me
Depends upon the rules of our game

Whoa Pen Penny Pen
It’s you I’m running to
The day I forget your number
I’ll forget Jenny Jenny’s too
It’s tattooed on the palm of my hand
By the street lamp coming in
We’ll be back on our feet again

From Amarillo down to Clovis
The old land seen our kind before
Since the first ones came to lay down their bones
In the pinyon grove between the wind and stone
Soft goodbye
Coyote moan

Climbing north out of Durango
Them San Juan hills are closing round
Silverton the wind was high
The night caught us at Telluride
And the mountain pass ain’t passing
No surprise

Whoa Pen Penny Pen
Every road leads to nevermore
Pen Penny every snow with you
Is a treasure that I’ll store
Tatooed on the palm of my hand
By the street lamp coming in
We’ll back on our feet again

Pen Penny Pen
It’s you I’m running to
Whoa Pen Penny yeah
Got a few more to travel to
Tattooed on the palm of my hand
By the streetlamp coming in
We’ll be back on our feet again.
 
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Love the song; evocative lyrics. The vocals sound great to me, Johnny has a superb voice!
I liked it when there was a contrast between the solo vocals and the harmony highlights in the verses and then the full blown harmonies in the choruses. As the harmonies are so good I'd use them as a bit of a hook and make the listener wait for them to come, so I'd remove them on the beginning of verses 3 and 4 (From Amarillo..., Climbing north...) emulating where the harmonies come in verse 1 and 2. If I were mixing this I would even experiment with having the harmonies only coming in on the choruses; that would be really impactful for the listener.
If I were Dave I'd be saying "Bring my drums up!" I couldn't hear much bass in the mix either. It's a showcase for superb vocals but I found myself wanting the rhythm section to be up there contributing some punch.
Thanks for letting us hear this, I really enjoyed it.

John
 
I thought there were plenty of drums and bass in the mix.
I didn't see anything I would change to be honest. I thought it sounded very good. Great job on the harmonies too. The vocals were good all the way around.
Good job robus!
 
I agree with jimi........nothing really stands out as an issue and the performance is excellent. If I HAD to nit pik at all.....I do think the overall sound might be just a TINY BIT veiled.......in that it could use a little more "air" to open it up. Thanks for the listen!
 
New mix in the OP. Better balance of lead and harmony vox. Major work to the drum bus. Thanks for the comments. Hope there will be more.
 
Done! Good all around. Excellent vocal work. Only critiques are the end fade is too abrupt. Personally I'm not so fond of the drums. Sound a little 'canned', but that could be attributed to personal taste.
But overall this is 'release ready'
:D
 
The new mix sounds a lot better to my ears.
I know mixes can be very subjective and skewed by our own tastes and experiences, so I can only speak for what I hear. (I'm listening on a good desktop system with both Adam and Alesis studio monitors and Sennheiser headphones.)
The drums are a lot better, although they seem panned very slightly left? I agree with RFR, they seem a little confined and a wee bit of room reverb might give them some space. I still think the bass is mid-heavy and bottom light, c.f. the final note it plays at the end of the track.
 
Thanks guys for the compliments on the vocals, was definitely a fun song to sing and arrange.

Yes the new drums are way better. Snare has pop and sizzle now. I agree they could use maybe a tad more reverb, on the snare mainly, but this works too, all about preference.

A few backgrounds are still a little loud to me, but again it's about preference. As I'm going through it phrase by phrase, these are the parts I would look at lowering if it were my mix. But keep in mind, it's just what I would do. If you like it, by all means, keep 'em where they're at.

1) "threw me down" in the first verse is loud. I'd bring those down considerably, 3 or 4db even.
2) "call within" pokes out a little.
3) "Amarillo.." can come down a db or two. Surprised you took out the harmony for "The old land.." line, I liked that one. No biggie, the reason I do a lot of them is so you can pick and choose.
4) "Wind and stone" can come down a little I think. It seems a little louder than the next part, the "Soft goodbye..." line (which is probably my favorite line/harmony in the whole song. "Wind and stone" being as loud as it is kind of takes away from the impact of "Soft goodbye..."
5) "Wind was high... Telluride" that whole line I'd bring down probably 2db.
6) "you I'm runnin' to" around 3:15 seemed a little hot as well.

I'd probably take all the chorus backgrounds down a db or two also, but that's just me. Again it's all preference, if you like 'em there, keep 'em where they're at.

At 3:24, the transition to the last "Tattooed..." line, I think there should be a crash, if there's one there I'm not hearing it. It's the last main, powerful line, and I think it needs a little more definition at the transition; without a solid crash there it seems like it's missing something. Noticed that while tracking the vocals as well, just forgot to bring it up.

The ride sounds good, down 1db wouldn't hurt, but sounds fine where it is.

I'm curious how you mixed my vocal double. Did you turn it down a little bit? Aggressive lo-pass? I was listening to my raw version again today 'cuz the wife wanted to hear it, and I knew you were working on a remix so I just played her mine. I do like them (lead and double) better at the same volume on this one for some reason, or maybe just down like 1db for the double. Listening to yours, it still sounds great, but I would guess you turned the double down 3 or 4db? Unless it's just my ears playing tricks on me... Either way, do what you feel works best to your ears.

That's all I got for now (I know it was quite a bit) Again, all my points are mostly picky and based on preference. It sounds great as is and has come a long way from the version I tracked to. You're definitely doing a great job.

Once the mix is truly done, I'd love to try my hand at mastering it. For more practice if anything, but I've got some really nice mastering plugins from the Slate suite; harmonic enhancers, transient designers, classic tube emulators, classic Neve, API, and SSL eq's, console emulators, mastering tape simulators, limiters, and more... I think the final version would benefit greatly from subtle use of some of them. All I'd need obviously is the two-track mixdown. You wouldn't have to use my version if you didn't like it, but I'd like to try.
 
Good job. Enjoyed the song immensely.

Only one nitpick on the mix: to me it seemed overall dark; lacking a bit in the upper freqs to give it some air and articulation. It could also be my poor hearing, so balance my comments with everyone else's.
 
JohnnyAmato said:
Thanks guys for the compliments on the vocals, was definitely a fun song to sing and arrange.

Yes the new drums are way better. Snare has pop and sizzle now. I agree they could use maybe a tad more reverb, on the snare mainly, but this works too, all about preference.

A few backgrounds are still a little loud to me, but again it's about preference. As I'm going through it phrase by phrase, these are the parts I would look at lowering if it were my mix. But keep in mind, it's just what I would do. If you like it, by all means, keep 'em where they're at.

1) "threw me down" in the first verse is loud. I'd bring those down considerably, 3 or 4db even.
2) "call within" pokes out a little.
3) "Amarillo.." can come down a db or two. Surprised you took out the harmony for "The old land.." line, I liked that one. No biggie, the reason I do a lot of them is so you can pick and choose.
4) "Wind and stone" can come down a little I think. It seems a little louder than the next part, the "Soft goodbye..." line (which is probably my favorite line/harmony in the whole song. "Wind and stone" being as loud as it is kind of takes away from the impact of "Soft goodbye..."
5) "Wind was high... Telluride" that whole line I'd bring down probably 2db.
6) "you I'm runnin' to" around 3:15 seemed a little hot as well.

I'd probably take all the chorus backgrounds down a db or two also, but that's just me. Again it's all preference, if you like 'em there, keep 'em where they're at.

At 3:24, the transition to the last "Tattooed..." line, I think there should be a crash, if there's one there I'm not hearing it. It's the last main, powerful line, and I think it needs a little more definition at the transition; without a solid crash there it seems like it's missing something. Noticed that while tracking the vocals as well, just forgot to bring it up.

The ride sounds good, down 1db wouldn't hurt, but sounds fine where it is.

I'm curious how you mixed my vocal double. Did you turn it down a little bit? Aggressive lo-pass? I was listening to my raw version again today 'cuz the wife wanted to hear it, and I knew you were working on a remix so I just played her mine. I do like them (lead and double) better at the same volume on this one for some reason, or maybe just down like 1db for the double. Listening to yours, it still sounds great, but I would guess you turned the double down 3 or 4db? Unless it's just my ears playing tricks on me... Either way, do what you feel works best to your ears.

That's all I got for now (I know it was quite a bit) Again, all my points are mostly picky and based on preference. It sounds great as is and has come a long way from the version I tracked to. You're definitely doing a great job.

Once the mix is truly done, I'd love to try my hand at mastering it. For more practice if anything, but I've got some really nice mastering plugins from the Slate suite; harmonic enhancers, transient designers, classic tube emulators, classic Neve, API, and SSL eq's, console emulators, mastering tape simulators, limiters, and more... I think the final version would benefit greatly from subtle use of some of them. All I'd need obviously is the two-track mixdown. You wouldn't have to use my version if you didn't like it, but I'd like to try.
Click to expand...

Awesome, thanks! I'll give a listen. The double is at the same level as the lead. I had taken it down a few dBs in an earlier mix but it's back up now. I did low pass the double at about 5k.

If you are interested in trying your hand at a master, definitely. You can try to other ones too. I actually bought the Waves Abbey Road TG Mastering strip recently and have been playing around with it, nothing too extreme. There's a couple of dB of gain reduction going on here.
 
Robus said:
I actually bought the Waves Abbey Road TG Mastering strip recently
Click to expand...

Oh ok cool, I almost bought that myself. That thing looks cool, I think it's on sale right now for like $39, but I passed 'cuz I basically have the Slate equivalent. Have at it then. I can still do a version for fun if you want.

Cool on the double, sounds great. What compressor(s) did you use on the main lead, just curious. Any drastic eq cuts? Did you have to de-ess? The subtle reverb you used sounds good.

Did you also mix in a slight slapback? Sometimes I do, sometimes I dont, depends on the song. I don't think this song needs one though. I almost always parallel compress my vocals too, but I don't think it's necessary here.
 
Chili said:
Good job. Enjoyed the song immensely.

Only one nitpick on the mix: to me it seemed overall dark; lacking a bit in the upper freqs to give it some air and articulation. It could also be my poor hearing, so balance my comments with everyone else's.
Click to expand...

I would also agree with this. Well, aside from the poor hearing.

Just a high shelf nudge on the master bus or even in mastering could take care of that. Always best to get it right in the mix though.

I would be honored to throw out a free 'home' mastering of this as well if given opportunity. Ironically I have lately been sending product out to pro mastering places. And have learned from those and improved my own by doing so.
 
I'd be interested to hear your take on mastering the song. I'm very new to it. There's no slapback. I have sorted out quite a few phase and alignment issues, as I mentioned. Could be you're hearing more of those.

I bought a bunch of Waves plugins lately, so I've been trying them out. Here's what I did on the vocals:

Lead vocal:
Waves VEQ4: Low pass @150Hz, 1-2 dB boosts at 380Hz and 6.8kHz'
Waves CLA-76 compressor, 3-6dB gain reduction, 4:1 ratio, quick attack and release
Waves H-Comp compressor with parallel compression, 4:1 ratio, slow attack and release, about 6 dB gain reduction.

On the double, I've got the same EQ with cuts in the low midrange and a low pass at 5.6kHz, followed by a Waves CLA-2A compressor doing about 5-6 dB of gain reduction.

The reverb is the Waves Abbey Road Chamber, which I've been using a bit more than the Abbey Road Plate.

PS: I did not de-ess. Do you think it needs it?
 
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Jimmy, that's awesome. I will most definitely take up your offer. I should have the mix nailed down in the next few days.

Anybody else want to take a shot at mastering it?
 
Overall this is really great.

Vocals sound terrific.

Not much I would change. Except the reverb. Which is pretty much what I always say. :)

But seriously it was really good.
 
New mix in the OP. More work on leveling the vocals. The low end of the mix should be more controlled. Not having much luck brightening it. Starting to drift sideways on this one.
 
Glossing over comments and listening to whatever mix is in the OP.

The harmonies sound really good. Interesting to hear Johnny's voice through Robus' vocal chains. He's got a little bit of that breathiness that you normally have and his recordings don't. It's a cool sound. I might spot check for lip smacks tho.

The drum pattern in verse 2 didn't do much for me. It sounded like a high-energy kick snare pattern, but there wasn't much crack to the snare, and the kick was kinda buried.

That's about as in-depth as I can hear in the noisy office with the mediocre D/A converters.
 
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