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Greg_L
Banned
He already explained what he means. Pay attention.
He already explained what he means. Pay attention.
fat_fleet
Swollen Member
The thing with rock music (that might be specific to rock music) is the listener wants to believe that there are 3, 4, or 5 discrete people playing the instruments together. They don't want to think that it's put together by some home studio wizard in his comfy den, even if he did use real drums and amps. Rock fans want a collaborative effort. It's that programming from A Hard Day's Night... a band is a group of friends that promotes an idea, or at least looks like they're having a shitload of fun. Every band is descended from that ideal in some way. Finding out that your favorite band is some 50yo dad playing everything in his Frankenstein lab ruins it for most rock fans, even if the tunes are phenomenal. We're apes and we like people in numbers.
Also, another level of artificiality in home rec, besides that introduced by fake instruments, is the ability to sit there for weeks and get everything right if you have to. Pay studio albums, even by well-funded artists, were once rife with mistakes, happy accidents, material that got written minutes before it was tracked.. and so they sounded looser or more organic, for lack of a more descriptive term. Now we're able to lay it down like robots, even robots that play real instruments, and the differences between one person's music and another's gets harder to notice.
Also, another level of artificiality in home rec, besides that introduced by fake instruments, is the ability to sit there for weeks and get everything right if you have to. Pay studio albums, even by well-funded artists, were once rife with mistakes, happy accidents, material that got written minutes before it was tracked.. and so they sounded looser or more organic, for lack of a more descriptive term. Now we're able to lay it down like robots, even robots that play real instruments, and the differences between one person's music and another's gets harder to notice.
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Tom Minter
New member
by authentic I suppose I mean a traditional rock band sound that does not make use of amp simulations, drum machines, drum software and sample replacements for example. But obviously rock and the definition of authentic traditional rock is hard to define as a genre and I know this but Authentic was the best word I could think of to define a traditional non modern rock sound. If anyone else could think of anymore words or terms that they think might be better then please do tell me
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Tom Minter
New member
you make an interesting point there happy accidents and mistakes are sometimes elements in a track that a listener hears and loves and makes them feel that human element in the performance. Perhaps recent abilities to use digital technology to get everything recorded perfectly has resulted in us loosing that human loose and less robotic feel within rock records
DM60
Well-known member
There are a few things people are missing when talking about the old days. First, the use of studio musicians (hired guns) to get it right (verses editing), a crew of educated professionals that did nothing but that and the equipment that was just way better (and expensive).
Seems like some of this is a little disingenuous. If you are doing some type of research, you really need to compare the trickery of yesteryear with technology of today.
Seems like some of this is a little disingenuous. If you are doing some type of research, you really need to compare the trickery of yesteryear with technology of today.
fat_fleet
Swollen Member
Were there generic bloated mass-marketed albums "back in the day"? Sure there were.
But I don't think that's what people remember fondly about "the old days". At least it's not for me.
I recorded in several pay studios, and I have no memory of any session musicians or "crew of educated professionals" being on site.
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Greg_L
Banned
Yes, this. ^^^^^^
DM60
Well-known member
Session Musicians - because you didn't want to pay for them.
Not sure of the studio, but I am sure the people who worked there knew what they were doing and were educated/experienced. I am pretty confident the people there knew what they were doing and not learning on your dime. Only thing you had to do know was, what you wanted to play.
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Tom Minter
New member
What do you mean by trickery in regards to past recording practices?
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
It's a nice "gadget"...but honestly...all it does is make you spend more time on your ass sitting at the computer with one more thing to program.
Like Greg said, at pro studios, there's interns falling all over themselves looking for the opportunity to be the gopher...and setting up mics is one of those "fun" jobs for an intern...as opposed to going for food or cleaning out the toilet.
Also, you still have to manually align the initial starting position and set up the whole thing...so I think the time spent with that offsets the time spent moving just the mic manually.
It certainly a nice toy for the absolutely anal engineers who need micro precision w/presets.
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Tom Minter
New member
very true I would agree with that more time spent concentrating on something else on a screen other than listening, to a real person move miss around, and as you said you have to place it anyway.
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Tom Minter
New member
Just seems like a bit of a distraction like many modern day technological inventions that are deemed to save time for quicker easier and better results
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
That has some truth to it...but even 'back in the day" (before digital) some albums use to take weeks, months even a year or two...and often they WERE done piecemeal, in a variety of studios, with some songs being recorded en masse, while others were a series of overdubs and without everyone there at the same time....not to mention with an "assembled" approach and the edits and alternate takes and even splicing of tape.
So the notion that most of the great "classic" rock tracks were churned out by a band playing live and nocked out in one or two passes...isn't the case.
Also...during the so called golden years of Rock recording...budgets were insane for the name acts, so that allowed those artists/bands to indulge themselves if they wanted, and there was no pressure to beat the clock for the sake of the budget.
DM60
Well-known member
++++++1
Plus, there are two types of recording:
One is, take a singer, band, etc. that has a defined sound and to capture it. This is what a lot of people think of when recording and one I would like to undertake more. Whether it is an electric sound or natural instruments, capture the sound and present it.
Then there are the other types, create a sound and present it. Either through amps, halls ways, bathrooms or VSTs and amp sims.
Sometimes the conversation seems to get confused between the two camps.
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Greg_L
Banned
I find that a lot of people seem to suffer from an overload of options. Plug-in jockeys are bad about this. Sim people are especially bad about this. This XXXX modeler has 50 amps and 90 cabs and 400 mics in it! Yeah, great, you're gonna spend a million hours "auditioning" everything and still just use one or two basic sounds over and over anyway. I pulled the plug on one band that wanted to record a demo with me because the guitar player couldn't decide on what sounds he wanted to use. Whatever we did he wasn't happy with it. And he was using real amps! I like the idea of committing to something and sticking with it.
fat_fleet
Swollen Member
Actually, I think it's confused about what "rock music" means.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
My personal approach is to use the studio as a creative process. Where it's not unusual to have the whole production evolve into something as it's being recorded...as opposed to have set parts/sounds all planned out and recording becomes just the process of capturing it all without much deviation.
I think when an artist/band goes in and does the latter...it may only seem as though it's already "defined" before the recording starts...but that's usually because they've already spent time experimenting and trying out things, and practicing it until it's perfect.
That's what probably happens with bands who want to go for that "playing together live" approach...so they have to get it all worked out and decided on before recording.
Otherwise, I think most artists/bands still do a lot of creative decision making as the recording is happening. There may be an overall plan, an idea for the sound, etc...but then you also let the recording find its own direction, and as you move through it, new ideas evolve and are incorporated.
Sometimes a single added instrument or vocal phrase or guitar lick can alter the course of a recording, and what was the initial direction, now turns and follows that new instrument/phrase/lick.
To me...that's what makes recording fun...hearing the song take shape and evolve...partly by my hand, and partly by the individual sounds coming together and forging new paths in the production.
I always have an idea of what I'm going to record and what I am after when I start...but I welcome the natural evolution and direction changes that occur....the "happy accidents".
That's the best part about recording.
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RickH
New member
I completed the survey. There were at least a couple of questions that were yes or no that I felt should have had a third option such as "Depends on the style of music".
fireflyva
New member
Aren't most of the contributors on this website "50 y/o dads" ? And if so, what's wrong with that? Can good R&R only be recorded by the young(er)?
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ronhar
New member
I'm one of those 60yr old dads!
I was reflecting that a lot of the "albums" I loved were made by studio players that stepped up to producing themselves using their engineering smarts. Great talents with experience equals excellence much of the time. As for authentic, consider lots of bands (with real guys laying real instruments)
I was reflecting that a lot of the "albums" I loved were made by studio players that stepped up to producing themselves using their engineering smarts. Great talents with experience equals excellence much of the time. As for authentic, consider lots of bands (with real guys laying real instruments)