Shipbuilding

[robgreen]

Ok, I did this Elvis Costello/Robert Wyatt cover a while ago as a collaboration with my buddy Joe. He sent me a piano and a vocal audio file and I chopped his piano about, built some guitars, bass, a beat and crappy background vocals around it.

I was kind of pitching for something a bit minimalist with a triphop type beat - hopefully there's enough to hold the interest? It definitely floats along rather than punches you in the stomach...

He was going to redo his vocals, but we both forgot about it. I just dug it out recently and gave the mix a bit of a polish. Nice mixing something recorded by someone who can sing and play their instrument properly for a change:



How's it sounding?

 

[dobro]

Sounds pretty good to me. You could pan the guitar a bit further left if you wanted - the keys on the right are panned further out right. You could make the keys more prominent in relation to the guitar (or what's more likely, find a way to bring the vibrato guitar down relative to the keys so they come out more. Maybe just turn it down 2 dB, dunno. (But the guitar level's right in the instrumental segment.) You can make the bvs pop more if you like - don't be shy - they're not very heard right now. Gee, I'm coming across like Mr Nit, but that's not what this one's about - it's good. Damn, he's got a wonderful voice.

 

[Mr Clean]

I don't know the original but this sounds pretty good. The only thing that stood out to me was the snare. It sounds a bit bright, no body to it, if that makes sense. Probably a personal taste thing thing.

I really like the way the piano follows the melody of the vocals in places. That sounds sweet as.

Good stuff mate

 

[jimistone]

I was never a Elvis C. fan. But, this is a good recording. I loved the bass drum sound. Is it a sample or an actual recording of a bass drum? Anyway, i though the mix was good and the vocal sat well in this mix. Good job rob.

 

[FoulPhil]

That was totally cool, dawg. Man it's crazy, there are a few people who sound so similar here on the HRF. I can only call it something like David Bowie with subtle differences. LOL. But your voice really does have a bit more of a difference to it. It reminds me of Tears For Fears meets David Bowie

 

[heatmiser]

Yeah, that dude can sing.

Not an elvis fan myself...there's something about those almost jazzy melodies that just rubs me the wrong way. Not relevant though I guess. Just some context for you.

Love the tremolo guitar. The almost glitchy beat throws me off at first, but I think that's the feel you were going for to the extent that I understand trip hop (meaning, hardly at all).

The piano tone was kind of artificial sounding I think? Maybe something that doesn't sound like it's supposed to be real in the first place might work better there? I dunno though. I do not know the original.

I like the little swells and odd sounds and delays that start during the last third of the track! Good job!

 

[robgreen]

Sounds pretty good to me. You could pan the guitar a bit further left if you wanted - the keys on the right are panned further out right. You could make the keys more prominent in relation to the guitar (or what's more likely, find a way to bring the vibrato guitar down relative to the keys so they come out more. Maybe just turn it down 2 dB, dunno. (But the guitar level's right in the instrumental segment.) You can make the bvs pop more if you like - don't be shy - they're not very heard right now. Gee, I'm coming across like Mr Nit, but that's not what this one's about - it's good. Damn, he's got a wonderful voice.

Hey, don't apologise for finding nits dobro -they're the most useful things to hear (alongside praise. Praise is good). I'll take a look at the panning and guitar/piano levels.

You're damn right about Joe - his voice is great. I tend to gravitate towards singers whose vocals are interesting rather than particularly technically proficient in my record collection, but it doesn't mean I don't wish I could sing like this. The crazy thing is he was actually pretty disappointed in his performance here!? My bvs were intended as a thickener rather than being too audible in their own right as they come up a bit short against his lead, but I'll see whether I can tweak 'em.

Thanks a lot man

I don't know the original but this sounds pretty good. The only thing that stood out to me was the snare. It sounds a bit bright, no body to it, if that makes sense. Probably a personal taste thing thing.

I really like the way the piano follows the melody of the vocals in places. That sounds sweet as.

Good stuff mate

Ace, thanks for listening and sharing your thoughts MrClean. The snare's been a bit tricky to settle in the mix - I want it to have a bit of snap to it, but you're probably right that it's slanted too much in that direction as is. I'll have a think and see what I can do. Cheers man

I was never a Elvis C. fan. But, this is a good recording. I loved the bass drum sound. Is it a sample or an actual recording of a bass drum? Anyway, i though the mix was good and the vocal sat well in this mix. Good job rob.

Ace, thanks Jimi. I'm not an Elvis C fan at all either - good starting point for a cover eh?

The bass drum is a sample - I can't remember which kit it came from, but it was a freebie acoustic kit one from somewhere online. I'm not on my DAW computer now, but I'll take a look when I'm on there next and let you know where you can get it from if you'd like?

Glad the mix sounded good to you. Thanks a lot buddy

 

[robgreen]

That was totally cool, dawg. Man it's crazy, there are a few people who sound so similar here on the HRF. I can only call it something like David Bowie with subtle differences. LOL. But your voice really does have a bit more of a difference to it. It reminds me of Tears For Fears meets David Bowie

Thanks a lot Phil. It's not my voice unfortunately - as I said in the last post, I wish it was! Nice to hear you thought it was cool, and I'm sure Joe would be flattered by the Bowie comparison. Cheers fella

Yeah, that dude can sing.

Not an elvis fan myself...there's something about those almost jazzy melodies that just rubs me the wrong way. Not relevant though I guess. Just some context for you.

Love the tremolo guitar. The almost glitchy beat throws me off at first, but I think that's the feel you were going for to the extent that I understand trip hop (meaning, hardly at all).

The piano tone was kind of artificial sounding I think? Maybe something that doesn't sound like it's supposed to be real in the first place might work better there? I dunno though. I do not know the original.

I like the little swells and odd sounds and delays that start during the last third of the track! Good job!

Thanks a lot Pete. Yeah, I'm not a Costello fan at all either, and to be honest I don't even like his recording of this song! Robert Wyatt's version is good though, and I think the songwriting itself is classic - a great piece of 80s social commentary about the Falklands War and deindustrialisation. I don't know if it made much of an impact outside the UK or not?

The melody is quite faithful to the original, but the arrangement isn't. I didn't really reference any other versions when I added my parts, I just played about with sounds I thought were cool. Joe likes to play it pretty straight with his music - he sent me some very accomplished piano and vocal parts and I spent my time trying to fuck about with it to try and take it somewhere else

I know what you mean about the piano, but it came through as an audio file, so I've only limited scope to shape the sound. When I dug the mix out, I saw that I'd put quite a brutal low pass filter on originally to make it a little less artificial. I thought the mix sounded a bit dark though, so I dialled some of the higher frequencies back in. If you ever hear Costello's version, the piano sound is really horrible on that...

I'm glad the swells and delays worked for you, I think I managed to capture what I was trying to with them pretty closely. On one of those instrumental sections towards the end, I took a bar of Joe's piano playing and looped it a few times - there's a loping bassline under it that I'm pretty chuffed with too (while I'm on the subject of patting myself on the back).

On the beat, I really like glitchy electronica type sounds, but I appreciate not everyone does. Maybe I pushed it a bit far, I dunno? Thanks again for your ears as usual Heat

 

[heatmiser]

I'm glad the swells and delays worked for you, I think I managed to capture what I was trying to with them pretty closely. On one of those instrumental sections towards the end, I took a bar of Joe's piano playing and looped it a few times - there's a loping bassline under it that I'm pretty chuffed with too (while I'm on the subject of patting myself on the back).

Yeah, I thought those sections worked really well. My favorite parts of the track actually.

 

[robgreen]

Yeah, I thought those sections worked really well. My favorite parts of the track actually.

Cool, thanks again Pete. I guess it would be interesting to hear from others whether they felt a bit thrown off by the beat too, or whether it sounded ok?

I'm probably too far down the line with it to revisit the pattern too much (for a cover at least). I wanted to try out something with a bit of a different direction and I also wanted a jazzy, shifting, stuttery kind of beat - though not something that sounded clumsy or awkward to listen to - and I'm not sure now which side of the line it falls? Any thoughts y'all?

 

[Jessica_X]

Good singing! I like the song a lot and had never heard it before either.
I like the slow pace and the arrangement.
There was one thing that struck me as far as improvements. I kept feeling like the downbeat should be louder, more driving, punchier. To sort of balance out the slow pace if that makes sense.
This was really cool.

 

[TripleM]

Voice sounds a bit like EC.

I thought it sounded OK.

The guitars are a bit dark - slightly muffled. I think the same goes for the keyboards.

I think I would turn down the bass a couple of dbs.

LIttle timing issue around :06.

Other than that, it was pretty good.

 

[rayc]

I have both Wyatt's & Costello's versions on singles as well as LPs.
A song that moved me to tears when I 1st heard it (at THAT time).
Nice cover.
A vocal that recalls Wyatt more than Declan but is it's own.
there were a couple of wobly notes but given that Wyatt sang through or just under several himself I thinkit's fine, fine, fine.

Clive Langer (Deaf School & Original Mirrors) did the music & Costello the lyrics melody - they did it with Wyatt in mind but EC couldn't pass up the opportunity to include an anti Thatcher tune so did his for Punch the Clock.

 

[robgreen]

Good singing! I like the song a lot and had never heard it before either.
I like the slow pace and the arrangement.
There was one thing that struck me as far as improvements. I kept feeling like the downbeat should be louder, more driving, punchier. To sort of balance out the slow pace if that makes sense.
This was really cool.

Hey, thanks a lot for listening Jessica. It's really nice to hear you enjoyed it and yeah, Joe's voice is really good!

I think that's a really valid point about making the downbeats a little more driving - it's always a challenge to keep low tempo songs moving along, and I agree that that's one of the best ways. I'll take a look when I get to the update. Cheers

Voice sounds a bit like EC.

I thought it sounded OK.

The guitars are a bit dark - slightly muffled. I think the same goes for the keyboards.

I think I would turn down the bass a couple of dbs.

LIttle timing issue around :06.

Other than that, it was pretty good.

Cool, thanks a lot for your thoughts Trip. The mix was darker still when I first pulled it out to revisit - I tried to address that, but maybe still some way to go.

I liked the bassline for the song, so maybe I gave it a little too much prominence to show it off. I'll put your issues on the checklist for the update - thanks man

I have both Wyatt's & Costello's versions on singles as well as LPs.
A song that moved me to tears when I 1st heard it (at THAT time).
Nice cover.
A vocal that recalls Wyatt more than Declan but is it's own.
there were a couple of wobly notes but given that Wyatt sang through or just under several himself I thinkit's fine, fine, fine.

Clive Langer (Deaf School & Original Mirrors) did the music & Costello the lyrics melody - they did it with Wyatt in mind but EC couldn't pass up the opportunity to include an anti Thatcher tune so did his for Punch the Clock.

Thanks a lot Ray - nice to hear that we managed to make a song our own that's pretty iconic and you're so familiar with. The first version I heard was by Suede on The Help Album when I was about 15. It was a charity album for children in the wars around the breakup of Yugoslavia - all the acts recorded their songs in one day and they were by and large excellent. I had the album on constant loop on my walkman and Suede's cover was one of my favourites on it. I've still got the tape at home, but no cassette player

I only actually heard Costello's version fairly recently, and it didn't do much for me - I think he wrote an excellent melody and lyrics though. I didn't know that it was the guy from Original Mirrors who wrote the music. Interesting.

Thanks for listening and sharing your thoughts ray

 

[rayc]

Rob,
I made a mistake it was Deaf School but Steve Allen from Deaf School was in OMirrors. Sorry!
Still, I have all the DS LPs & CDs.

 

[Bubba po]

Cool, thanks again Pete. I guess it would be interesting to hear from others whether they felt a bit thrown off by the beat too, or whether it sounded ok?

I'm probably too far down the line with it to revisit the pattern too much (for a cover at least). I wanted to try out something with a bit of a different direction and I also wanted a jazzy, shifting, stuttery kind of beat - though not something that sounded clumsy or awkward to listen to - and I'm not sure now which side of the line it falls? Any thoughts y'all?

Hi, Rob. I'm a real fan of this song and I also like the trip-hop genre. I think it's well recorded , well performed and I love all the backing parts. Your mate's got a really nice voice. I really don't want to say anything bad about this track but there is just one thing that bothers me. The piano and singing parts are in eighth-note triplets feel and the drums are in straight 4/4 time. This sounds really, really awkward to my ear. Other than that, I love it.

 

[dobro]

Rob,
I made a mistake it was Deaf School but Steve Allen from Deaf School was in OMirrors. Sorry!
Still, I have all the DS LPs & CDs.

Partly because of their musical sensibility, partly because of the way they deliver themselves, they remind me of Dexys Midnight Runners.

 

[Supercreep]

Say, this is one of my very favorite EC songs. I think you did a great job. Perhaps the vibrato on the guitar is a little fast.

I like the drums, and your buddy does a pretty good EC. Nice work.

---------- Update ----------

Also, tape delays are always win.

 

[fritsthegirl]

Can't believe you covered this. I love this song. The vocals are really chill and stable, and I think the cover you've done of it is a very sympathetic one. Robert Wyatt's version of this song made it to number 27 (1983) in new zealand apparently. I'd actually never heard it back then, but I was only 8. I didn't even know it had been written by Costello. Learn something new every day. Anyways, this is starting to sound like that TV programme, Pop up video!

I know Robert's version pretty well, and what you did with it sounds super good to me. Nice job old chap, really nice.

 

[robgreen]

Rob,
I made a mistake it was Deaf School but Steve Allen from Deaf School was in OMirrors. Sorry!
Still, I have all the DS LPs & CDs.

Ah, thanks for that link Ray. I was only really aware of Original Mirrors through the Ian Broudie connection - I'd never heard Deaf School before. They weren't really my thing, but interesting to hear

Hi, Rob. I'm a real fan of this song and I also like the trip-hop genre. I think it's well recorded , well performed and I love all the backing parts. Your mate's got a really nice voice. I really don't want to say anything bad about this track but there is just one thing that bothers me. The piano and singing parts are in eighth-note triplets feel and the drums are in straight 4/4 time. This sounds really, really awkward to my ear. Other than that, I love it.

Excellent, I was hoping you'd get chance to listen in Bubba, as it was a couple of posts with you on the Challenge Thread that reminded me I'd done this cover in the first place. On the triphop front, I listened to Portishead's Dummy for the first time in a while recently - man, that record still sounds just as good and fresh as the first time I heard it.

No need to apologise for picking up on the timing disparity between the piano and the drums - it's really helpful. I think that's where my lack of technical knowledge/musical theory betrays me a little, as it's just not something I would have known to think about when I was putting it all together. I think that I would have initially just looped a four to the floor kick under the track and then used that as the basis of building the rest of the beat around, as I kind of intuitively thought fit. I've never been able to really get my head around what different time signatures mean - looks like it's time to learn! Great to hear you enjoyed it anyway, and thanks for your thoughts.

Say, this is one of my very favorite EC songs. I think you did a great job. Perhaps the vibrato on the guitar is a little fast.

I like the drums, and your buddy does a pretty good EC. Nice work.

---------- Update ----------

Also, tape delays are always win.

Cool, thanks a lot Supercreep - I'm glad you liked it, and that the drums worked well.

Yeah, I'm a massive sucker for delay. I'd love one of those old original tape delay units - years ago I remember a mate picking up one an Echoplex for about £30 in a pawnshop! I think I spent the next six months trawling pawnshops myself, with no such luck. Cheers man