Need advice on what setup I should start out with....

[Rambone]

I'm a 25-year old singer/songwriter (been playing for 13 years) and I've finally decided to "track" my music. I plan on recording vocals/drums (from a program like AD or EZDrummer...not live "miked" drums)/guitar/bass/synth/and some odds and ends. I want to record as a one-man band but will outsource everything but guitar and vocals to local musicians for live performances. I don't need something to just "get ideas down". I have a couple digital media recorders PACKED with ideas, lyrics, melodies, riffs, chord progressions, scales, entire songs...some great, some "eh", and some that i need to develop and pursue a bit more...

Anyway...I'm stuck between going the 8-track portastudio route (i.e. TASCAM DP-008) and adding a drum machine and a few mics...or...going the PC route (e.g. Reaper for a DAW, Line 6 Pod for guitar, Addicted Drums for the percussion).

Which would you personally suggest for somebody in my situation? I don't want to go over the 500 dollar range. Would i need anything else for a PC setup, aside from i already listed? If I went the PC Route (which I'm leaning towards the most), which would be the ideal setup (without getting too excessive and overblown)????

Thanks.

 

[grimtraveller]

Because I'm used to the portastudio route, my heart would be inclined to say go that way, it did me no harm and in fact, was a major blessing etc.....
But my head would tend to disagree and say go the way of the computer, not because I use the computer to actually record, but because most people here seem to and you may get a greater breadth of advice. And besides, you say you are already leaning that way.
A possible halfway house between the two would be to buy a standalone DAW as made by the likes of Fostex, Tascam, Zoom, Roland/Boss, Akai, Yamaha.....There you'll get the hands on basic ease of the portastudio with the basic editing facility of the computer.

If I was in your shoes, I'd go with whichever inclination I was leaning towards and you know, whichever route you take, it'll work for you because you'll make it so as you learn.

 

[benherron.rrr]

Hey.

I would go down the PC route, becuase it is the most flexible and easily expandable, saying that ive never used any recorders. My set up is cubase 5 running through a line 6 toneport UX2 which for your needs i recomend. Pod farm is good for emulation of guitar amps as well as pre amps, its a cheap way to get a good sound, and the two mic inputs give you more head room than just having one. if you want to record acoustic guitar or an amp with duel mic techniques. I also use addictive drums which i really love. but there are quite a few drum samplers around, unfortunatly I havn't tried any others so I have nohing to compare it to so it might be worth digging around. As for cubase it is above your price range so i would say reaper is fine to use. and if you havn't already got any mics, i would recomend getting a fairly cheap condencer mic if not 2 and a dynamic. I dont use top end equipment but i can achive a decent sounding production with what i have.

I hope i have been of some help

Ben

 

[grimtraveller]

As for cubase it is above your price range

But Cubase 5 Essentials isn't.......

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Steinberg-C...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1275433968&sr=8-1

 

[benherron.rrr]

But Cubase 5 Essentials isn't.

Right you are. . . I dont mean to sound like a right fan boy but I really love using cubase. I think its a general good all rounder, and everyday im finding out new things that make the experience. saying that i havn't really used any others for a long space of time

 

[Rambone]

hmmm....interesting....might have to give Cubase a look.

I basically want a DAW that is accessible. BTW, when I say "accessible", I don't expect the process to be easy. I just understand that there are DAW programs out there that are WAY too ambitious and complicated for my needs.

 

[grimtraveller]

Warning. This is an off topic shaggy dog story....

I dont mean to sound like a right fan boy but I really love using cubase. I think its a general good all rounder

That kind of post means more to someone like me because the user really digs their equipment and gets lots out of it.
I remember once when I was a playworker with 5-15 year olds, being on an interview panel and we met to determine who would be called for an interview. We had the criteria and all the applications were boring standard lists of qualifications and pc blurbs and they were all getting interviews as they 'fitted'. But there was no spark. Anyway, one applicant didn't really have the qualifications that everyone else was looking for but her enthusiasm shone through and she ended her form with "I just love working with kids". And myself and one other panelist said "We've just got to interview this woman !" But the other three were against it. Most of that evening was spent arguing over that one person and in the end the two of us (we actually worked with the kids) through much passionate and voiciferous arguing got her an interview.
As it turned out, she called up the next week and said she wasn't coming !!
But that wasn't the point of the tale.....

 

[Rambone]

That kind of post means more to someone like me because the user really digs their equipment and gets lots out of it.
I remember once when I was a playworker with 5-15 year olds, being on an interview panel and we met to determine who would be called for an interview. We had the criteria and all the applications were boring standard lists of qualifications and pc blurbs and they were all getting interviews as they 'fitted'. But there was no spark. Anyway, one applicant didn't really have the qualifications that everyone else was looking for but her enthusiasm shone through and she ended her form with "I just love working with kids". And myself and one other panelist said "We've just got to interview this woman !" But the other three were against it. Most of that evening was spent arguing over that one person and in the end the two of us (we actually worked with the kids) through much passionate and voiciferous arguing got her an interview.
As it turned out, she called up the next week and said she wasn't coming !!
But that wasn't the point of the tale.....

And the non-sequitur award of the day goes to....

You said that your heart is with a portastudio...I woke up this morning and felt more inclined to go in that direction as well. I know it's easier to edit on the PC (at least I think it is) but there's something romantic to me about turning the knobs (cue the double-entendre laugh track) and having something i can touch, rather than click. This decision has become especially difficult since last night, where the creative floodgates opened up and i was writing for over 2 hours straight.

 

[grimtraveller]

You said that your heart is with a portastudio...

Well, kinda. I'm still finishing off stuff on my beloved Tascam 488 cassette portastudio so we'll be together for a while yet. We've been together 18 years and most of what I know has come through that association. But my heart has been stolen by another.......

I know it's easier to edit on the PC (at least I think it is) but there's something romantic to me about turning the knobs (cue the double-entendre laugh track) and having something i can touch, rather than click. This decision has become especially difficult since last night, where the creative floodgates opened up and i was writing for over 2 hours straight.

But after all those years and managing to sometimes have up to 40 tracks worth of stuff mixed to 8, I felt that I needed to go a different route. I'd've probably stayed analog if I was prepared to actually cut the tape. I have no issues with the analog vs digital argument. I'll happilly bat for both.
In a way, the standalone DAW may well be your best bet, it really seems to be the best of both worlds. I use an Akai DPS12i and in terms of the hands on-ness, it's just like the Tascam, except that it's 12 rather than 8 track. But it has editing facilities, on board effects, mixdown on board (if you don't use more than 10 tracks), 250 virtual tracks which is fantastic and a number of other little bits too. It's made a big difference in recording, for example, drums. Whereas before I had to record on just one track {via a little mixer}, now I can use 3,4 or 5 and up to 9 mics. Soundwise, my stuff still sounds muddy, just like analog ! Seriously though, it's like an upgraded 488, a born again Tascam, as it were. The sound isn't at all clinical and harsh. There's quite a few standalone users here on HR and you'd freak at some of the quality of stuff the people are able to create. It may be worth having a look at the standalones, just another ingredient in the stew.....
Incidentally, it's brilliant that your creative juices are flowing !

 

[benherron.rrr]

And the non-sequitur award of the day goes to....

You said that your heart is with a portastudio...I woke up this morning and felt more inclined to go in that direction as well. I know it's easier to edit on the PC (at least I think it is) but there's something romantic to me about turning the knobs (cue the double-entendre laugh track) and having something i can touch, rather than click. This decision has become especially difficult since last night, where the creative floodgates opened up and i was writing for over 2 hours straight.

Thats one of the things that was missing from my life, its all well and good having some good softwear, but i always felt the need to feel the music rather than just clicking a fader up and down. I solved that problem by buying myself a BCF-2000, ok its beringer, not the best quality and difficult to set up, but it was cheap and makes me feel like im mixing on a massive desk. All you can do is go with your heart. I went down the PC route because when i started out that the only route i knew existed at he time. Ive started to open my eyes over the last year though.

I always get people coming up to me saying "Cubase is S**T use Protools" etc. but ultimatly you have to work with what suits you. I use my DAW at about 10% of its potential, but im always expanding, always learning. every song i record i listen back to the last one and think "that was crap". PC's and Cubase have given me headroom to expand as an egineer, producer and most importantly an artist.

 

[Rambone]

What do you guys think of this???


http://www.guitarcenter.com/TASCAM-DP-008-Recording-Package-584792-i1509944.gc

 

[grimtraveller]

What do you guys think of this???


http://www.guitarcenter.com/TASCAM-DP-008-Recording-Package-584792-i1509944.gc

One person's "This is the dog's bollocks !" is another person's "This is a load of bollocks !". Were you recording live drums or three or four people at a time, I'd say no because there's only simultaneous recording on two tracks and I'm a little spoiled now with the Akai (although you could get around that with a mixer) with virtual tracks and all. I'm no techie head, I don't know a good mic from a lame average mike and all that but of one thing I am convinced - a person can record on anything that is designed for recording, high end or entry level. I believe that whatever tools are at your disposal, especially as a beginner, they are there to be learned and can be valuable if you have a continual learners attitude. I've been recording for 18 years, my mixes are not what I'd call pristine and I'm always keen to hear what loads of different people try out and I try to adapt it to my situation. It can feel intimidating when so many people with far greater skill weigh in with "that's a rubbish make/spec" or whatever but soon one develops rhino skin. So, I'd say that that package looks like a useful one and there's plenty for you to be getting on with if you have it. I don't know anything about the monitors but again, if that's what you have, it's what you'll learn on and you'll become attuned to them. Sometimes with all the reading one does it can be easy to forget that we are the ones that have to do the learning and growing ! Also, there's so many programmes and packages out there, it becomes much of a muchness. Ultimately they're all roads that lead to the same end. What's a steep curve to me might be child's play to you......

 

[Armistice]

What do you guys think of this???


http://www.guitarcenter.com/TASCAM-DP-008-Recording-Package-584792-i1509944.gc

I think the same of it as I think of almost everything that's sold in a package - it's a toy aimed at people looking for an easy solution, but not a good solution.

I've always recorded on standalone recorders and I think you can avoid a whole lot of drama by using them if you're not particularly interested in 1s and 0s and making sure you have the right drivers, and enough RAM and a big enough CPU all that stuff, but you do give up editing functionality and other good stuff by making this choice.

Have a look at your musical equipment. If it full of instruments of similar value to this, then perhaps this is where you start. If not, go further up the foodchain if you can. Don't hobble yourself at the start of the race.

I'll say this to you - if you're just starting out recording then you only THINK you know what you want to do. When you have the machinery and start to get familiar with it and hang around here and swap ideas and start to record stuff, I'm just betting a new world will open up for you and you will see possibilities that you aren't currently aware of.

And your 8 track gizmo will quickly frustrate you.

Find more money, is my advice, you won't regret it.

Personal opinion, however... not all will agree with me...

 

[moresound]

Well I agree with ya Armistice.

 

[Rambone]

I'm more competent than you guys think (btw...i'm not claiming that you said otherwise). I've already read the manual for the DP-008 and I'm really good at figuring out electronic devices. Even though I'm a "newbie" in the sense of recording with a MTR or PC audiostation, I'm more mature and advanced as a musician than many people who first start out with this stuff. i've been playing over half my life and i have hours upon hours of material ready to be tracked (or at least molded). I've made the most out of a Gibson guitar, Digitech multieffect pedal, Marshall amp, a modest yamaha keyboard and a tiny digital recorder for a very long time. It's time to move up.

I'm confident that I can make the most out of a 8-track recorder. Ween (a great band) recorded their first 3 albums in their living room with nothing but a MTR, a drum machine and their instruments and those albums sound much better than most of the crap i hear today.

 

[Armistice]

Hi Rambone..

Wasn't casting slurs on your competence as a musician (we're all genius musos here btw - they check before they let you sign up... ), and you have, in fact, answered one of my questions... you appear to have good gear.

Yes, you can record albums on 8 track machines... I should know, I've done two of them, but you know, I much prefer the 16 track machine I have, and if I was doing serious recording at this stage, I'd probably go for a new machine with 24..... and all I do is record guitar instrumentals... no drums... I can use 16 tracks no worries...

I mean, make your own choice, but unless money is a real issue and you wish to self-impose a track count constraint on yourself as an artistic endeavour, if you can afford more tracks, get them. You will find uses for them that you can't imagine right now.. but if you don't have them, then welcome to bounce city...

Good luck..

 

[jdier]

hmmm....interesting....might have to give Cubase a look.

I would stick with Reaper. For $60 you get everything they have to offer and a killer set of plug ins.

Really for $500 you are (most likely) not going to be making your next CD on this set up. What you could do though is really flesh out ideas and do overdubs and get things sounding like a killer demo.

I have used the toneport USB XV2 (I think that is the model) It is not the most elegant looking or pristine sounding unit, but it works really well and you could use that for your preamp and interface... I think it is $200.

You will need some mic cables and stands ($100)

And some mics, maybe a low cost LDC ($100?) and a SM57 ($175).

$200 toneport
$060 reaper
$100 stands and cables
$100 LDC
$075 SM57

$535... do some shopping or hit the bay and you could wind up under $500 easily.

 

[benherron.rrr]

I suppose I like haveing no limitations. although i do see the point of limitations. many people who start out with the full sha bang learn how to do things by having everything, people who have to manage carefully how many tracks they are using etc gain much more perspective on how to record songs well using next to nothing. much like saying its not the car making the mistakes its the driver. theres no point having a £3000 mic when you can't use a £50 mic perfectly. All I can say is stretch your budget as much as you can, keep looking round to get the best out of your budget and go for that! try every different possibility. Not doubting your experience or skill but I found I bought things that I thourght would be fine, but then as a I slowly delved deeper into the world of recording I realised I could of spent that money on things that would have benifited me more. And Im a complete noob compared to many of the peple on here

 

[Rambone]

After seriously thinking it over and looking into different options, I'm going almost entirely in the direction of a MTR. I appreciate people who use DAW's on their computers but I'm just not comfortable with that setup. I've found that it's best to go with what makes you comfortable when it comes to music.

I'm leaning in this direction at the moment....

*http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DP02/
*a condenser mic
*a drum machine

My multieffect pedal also doubles as a preamp so i can dial effects for guitar/vocals/drums and what-not through that.

I may export to Reaper to clean up the some tracks but i don't want to use a DAW as my main recording station.

Any opinions???

 

[miroslav]

After seriously thinking it over and looking into different options, I'm going almost entirely in the direction of a MTR.

I'm leaning in this direction at the moment....

*http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DP02/


I may export to Reaper to clean up the some tracks but i don't want to use a DAW as my main recording station.

Why?

What's the difference...both are DAWs.
With a computer-based DAW, you have the option of upgrading your converters and software and hardware.

With a standalone DAW....it's all so very proprietary...and you STILL have to export to a computer-based DAW to do any real editing...so now you have to have two rigs.