Help remixing this song really quick

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iBetOnBaseball

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So I am working on this project where I am trying to restore some old multi track recordings. The song has three tracks.. one drums, one vocals, and one combined track with bass, piano and strings. It's the combined one I need help with

The combined track was recorded as a stereo file but with no panning whatsoever so it is essentially mono. Therefore all the instruments are panned right up the middle so you can imagine it is very CROWDED in the center of the stereo field and in order for the vocals to cut through I have to literally EQ out the entire range where where the vocal sits. This of course buries the piano and strings under the vocal.

So what to do? Is there any way to treat this stereo track of strings, bass, piano with a plugin or technique that would push the instruments off to the sides a bit to make room for the vocal and at the same time widen them a bit so there is a perception that they are in stereo?

Any and all insight/ideas on this much appreciated
 
iBetOnBaseball said:
So I am working on this project where I am trying to restore some old multi track recordings. The song has three tracks.. one drums, one vocals, and one combined track with bass, piano and strings. It's the combined one I need help with

The combined track was recorded as a stereo file but with no panning whatsoever so it is essentially mono. Therefore all the instruments are panned right up the middle so you can imagine it is very CROWDED in the center of the stereo field and in order for the vocals to cut through I have to literally EQ out the entire range where where the vocal sits. This of course buries the piano and strings under the vocal.

So what to do? Is there any way to treat this stereo track of strings, bass, piano with a plugin or technique that would push the instruments off to the sides a bit to make room for the vocal and at the same time widen them a bit so there is a perception that they are in stereo?

Any and all insight/ideas on this much appreciated
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I've asked questions similar to this before...
The answer I always get is "can you unscramble an egg?"
and the answer to that is no.
 
Yeah but see here's the thing............... there ARE people out there that know how to turn moldy old turds into fresh new stanky turds. Hopefully one of them will read this
 
PM me the Strings/Bass/Piano track, I can separate it.

I hate the "can't unscramble eggs" analogy, all the data is there, it just takes time and patience.
 
boblybob said:
PM me the Strings/Bass/Piano track, I can separate it.

I hate the "can't unscramble eggs" analogy, all the data is there, it just takes time and patience.
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I'd like to hear this,and I'd also like to know how you plan on doing it.
 
At a certain point,isn't it just easier AND better to just re-record it?:confused:
 
acidrock said:
At a certain point,isn't it just easier AND better to just re-record it?:confused:
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No, because it wouldn't be the same in the spirit of the song, and the point of remixing is to hear the original in better quality/different mix. Plus, the person who originally recorded that part might be dead.


I wouldn't want to hear a remix of Stairway to Heaven if they had re-record Plant's vocals and Bonham's drums for example.
 
boblybob, you are so right. It would be simple to re-record the tracks but then the spirit of the original would be lost. I may take you up on your offer to send you the file. Perhaps you could EQ it too so I can see/hear how you would clean it up..?
 
iBetOnBaseball said:
boblybob, you are so right. It would be simple to re-record the tracks but then the spirit of the original would be lost. I may take you up on your offer to send you the file. Perhaps you could EQ it too so I can see/hear how you would clean it up..?
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Yeah, I'll give it a try to eq.

Here's an example: I remixed an old Lead Belly song in stereo by separating his guitar from his vocals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6yCEsDsGx4
 
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boblybobobob,

Which forensics package do you use? DCLive 6 or 7, or something else?

G.
 
boblybob said:
A program similar to Cedar Retouch.
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Similar to? That's like saying almost pregnant.

Cedar Retouch is a spectral editor. The ability to unscramble eggs with something like that is going to be somewhat limited.

G.
 
boblybob said:
Algorithmix Renovator
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Yeah, another spectral editor. "Forensic software" usually means something far more sophisticated and high-tech than just a spectral editor. Don't get me wrong, spectral editors are way cool - I love them myself - but calling them "forensic software" is akin to calling a trash can a "refuse storage receptacle" ;) :D.

The success for using that kind of editing to "unscramble eggs" is going to be inversely proportional to the density and complexity of the arrangement to be unscrambled, as well as the original equalization of the instrument tracks that were mixed. In this instance, if the piano and strings are on top of each other at all, arrangement wise, I think you'll find that un-scrambling them will be like trying to split Humpty Dumpty in order to make two smaller whole eggs.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Yeah, another spectral editor. "Forensic software" usually means something far more sophisticated and high-tech than just a spectral editor. Don't get me wrong, spectral editors are way cool - I love them myself - but calling them "forensic software" is akin to calling a trash can a "refuse storage receptacle" ;) :D.

The success for using that kind of editing to "unscramble eggs" is going to be inversely proportional to the density and complexity of the arrangement to be unscrambled, as well as the original equalization of the instrument tracks that were mixed. In this instance, if the piano and strings are on top of each other at all, arrangement wise, I think you'll find that un-scrambling them will be like trying to split Humpty Dumpty in order to make two smaller whole eggs.

G.
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Well it's about the most expensive spectral editor out there, somewhere around $3000. I've done some amazing things with it, remixed a lot of old mono-only songs.

It gets the job done.;)
 
I have no doubt there is software that can "unscramble",my scepticism comes from how good it can do the job.
I say post the original track and then the seperated tracks,then let the people judge the effectiveness.
It's all just talk until then.
 
boblybob said:
Note: It is NOT supposed to sound good isolated.
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I already heard it in the meTube link, and it's the same thing here. That's exactly what one would expect of such editing. There are honking, flanging guitar artifacts all over the vocals. It sounds awful processed to stereo. The caveat that it's not supposed to sound good isolated is an out clause that defeats the whole purpose of "isolating" them to begin with. One obviously can't leave them isolated sounding like that; so the idea is to process the vocals separately and re-merge them. Problem is, whatever you do to the vocals, you're going to do to the guitar artifacts as well - which are a significant percentage of the total guitar energy - and when you merge them back to mono, it's going to mess with the guitar sound too in unintentional ways.

I imagine the response is, "better than nothing", but that's not going to be true much of the time. It's one thing to take an old Leadbelly side with nothing but vocals and acoustic accompaniment, where it was already tracked to let the vocals dominate the mono signal - and which BTW has the result still be pretty majorly scrambled, and artifacted on top of it. - and another to take a recording like the OPs where the vocal is being *masked* by piano and strings, and un-mask the vocal without screwing up the piano and strings in the process.

BTW, you can get a full-fledged spectral editor in with Adobe Audition 3, and get the whole package for about one-tenth the price of the Algorithmix spectral editor alone. If you already have an older copy of Audition, the upgrade is only $99.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I already heard it in the meTube link, and it's the same thing here. That's exactly what one would expect of such editing. There are honking, flanging guitar artifacts all over the vocals. It sounds awful processed to stereo. The caveat that it's not supposed to sound good isolated is an out clause that defeats the whole purpose of "isolating" them to begin with. One obviously can't leave them isolated sounding like that; so the idea is to process the vocals separately and re-merge them. Problem is, whatever you do to the vocals, you're going to do to the guitar artifacts as well - which are a significant percentage of the total guitar energy - and when you merge them back to mono, it's going to mess with the guitar sound too in unintentional ways.

I imagine the response is, "better than nothing", but that's not going to be true much of the time. It's one thing to take an old Leadbelly side with nothing but vocals and acoustic accompaniment, where it was already tracked to let the vocals dominate the mono signal - and which BTW has the result still be pretty majorly scrambled, and artifacted on top of it. - and another to take a recording like the OPs where the vocal is being *masked* by piano and strings, and un-mask the vocal without screwing up the piano and strings in the process.

BTW, you can get a full-fledged spectral editor in with Adobe Audition 3, and get the whole package for about one-tenth the price of the Alhorithmix spectral editor alone. If you already have an older copy of Audition, the upgrade is only $99.

G.
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I have Adobe Audition, their editor is NOWHERE near as powerful as Renovator. Renovator can actually find harmonics belonging to what you select, it fills in the audio by re-syntheses instead of just deleting it.

The op's would be easier to work with, and sound better. The Lead Belly track has artifacts because I separated everything. The op's track would have vocals and drums untouched because they're on a separate track. Piano, bass, and strings are some of the easiest to separate.

Who cares about how it sounds isolated? The whole point is to remix and restore, if I can do that with minimal artifacts, it's fine.

OP, I'd still love to give it a shot and see what I can do.;)
 
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