"the true secret to great amp tone"

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lpdeluxe said:
Pedals? Those are for tinkerers, not musicians.
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Oh c'mon...it's one thing to say that you prefer not to use pedals, or don't need them to get your sound--but to dismiss anyone who uses pedals as a tinkerer and not a musician???

Some of my favorite guitar music of all time is a player, a guitar and an amp. The rest of my favorite guitar music of time is a player, a guitar, God knows what under his feet on the floor, and an amp.

In other words: everything has its place.
 
it is fair to put a YMMV in front of virtually any post in this forum.

to me, the weber mass attenuator was one of, if not *the* best thing ive spent money on for my guitar tone in the past 5 or 6 years.

granted, more attenuation = less great tone with virtually any attenuator.

but where it shines with its awesomeness is at slight attenuation. i can detect virtually no tonal difference (other than sheer volume, and the effects of that) from using slight attenuiation vs. no attenuation. and frankly, almost always, slight attenuation is plenty---- a little goes a long way. it allows lots of tonal variation by virtue of the fact that it is in between the amp and the speakers---- the distortion and compression of your cranked amp is virtually unchanged (especially with only mild attenuation), but a few (or several) dB reduction can make a huge difference.

blah blah blah. i definitely suggest trying one if you havent already.

BTW, i am not really a pedal guy, and i do normally get the bulk of my sound from the gain stages in the amp. however, there are a few amps where a graphic has been very helpful to me for finding the tone i wanted, particularly when volume was a concern. ultra bright british style amps are a good example, as would be very dark "chicago" style amps from past times.

like i said, YMMV.
 
EQ in every step.

my guitar has:

-2 pickups -->different EQ:s
-3 position selector -->more EQ

-My tube distortion preamp has TONE CONTROLS!!
in clean channe and gain channel!! -------->EQ

My amp has tone controls.--------EQ.

ergo:
pickups-->EQ--distortion-->EQ-->amp preamp-->EQ--Power tubes.


Which of you has a distortionpedal without tone controls?..

And my 30 watter don't need a soak in rehealsals....:)

edit: but I do own a 10-band EQ, in case I'd need it. not at this point...
 
Hmm. Some good suggestions, but I get VERY uncomfortable when people start saying there's "one" secret to good tone.

I swear by my attenuator, true. And I could see where having an EQ in your signal chain, especially post-gain, could really do a lot for shaping your tone to your taste, but really there comes a point where you're just trying to put a band-aid on an amputaded leg. I mean, you're not going to get that Cannibal Corpse tone out of a Fender Blues Jr, no matter how hard you try, you know?


So, there's something to be said for having the right amp for the application, but also something to be said for knowing how to apply it. Good advice, if you take it with a grain of salt.
 
Man I wish I hadn't read this thread, well not the thread, the essay about EQing and Power Attenuators.

I thought I'd mess about with an eq pedal in the amp modeling software on my comp, to see how it affects things in theory, rather than just going out and buying one. It seemed to sound great. But the point of it, to me anyway, is that it gives you a second distorted tone, so you can basically switch between a distorted rhythm and distorted lead tone for example.
However, the way the article is worded, seems that I should buy a couple of eq pedals, a distortion pedal; hook it all up to an amp, play around with it and I'll very quickly find my perfect tone, but I can find a good tone with just an amp and a distortion pedal, so it seems like a waste of money.

What I'd really like is some audio examples, anyone got any?

With the Power Attenuator, what does it do? I'm sorry if that sounds like a dumb question, but from what I read (and bear in mind I was on my break at work, so I was not at full concentration) it seems that it limits the power of your amp, in order to eliminate unwanted noise? Surely that would also limit the output also?

If someone could give me a really simple explanation I'd like to read it, as I feel it's important for me to know this stuff as I endevour to improve my home studio.

Oh, and I'm a drummer (but I can play some guitar, so its not pointless in me posting her), so if you are going to explain something, small words and short sentences please.
 
A power attenuator is a device that you connect between the output stage of your amplifier and your speakers/cabinet. It takes some of the output power from your amp and dissipates it as heat, and then sends the rest to your speakers.

What this allows you to do is crank up the master volume on your tube amp, while keeping the final output volume as low as you want it. This lets you get power tube saturation/breakup while keeping the final volume tolerable. It's power tube breakup and saturation that produces that trademark tube amp buttery smooth, "warm" distortion. This is opposed to preamp distortion, which tends to be more harsh and brittle sounding (think solid-state Crate practice amp distortion).

What all of us tube amp horn-balls love about our amp is the sound of the power tubes really cooking and distorting. Then you blend in some preamp distortion for saturation and sensitivity and there you go!

A power attenuator is kind of like a second master volume that you stick right before your speakers. Kind of. Sort of.
 
twsknight-Yes, some audio samples would have been great. It was why I posted the article in the first place really. I just wondered if anyone had actually applied the article ideas to their rig.

I already run an EQ pedal at the front of my chain as I find it shapes the tone a bit better (I don't use my distortion pedal much). I'll try an attenuator though when I have some spare cash. You never know-it may be great, it may not.

That said, I'm a pretty crappy player and one of those guys who "is always searching for tone". Great fun though.

Mike.
 
Y'all are way too complicated.

Great guitar > cord > great amplifier.

E.g. 1964 Strat > cord > 1966 Vibrolux Reverb

Add a touch of reverb to taste . . .

Any questions?
 
foo said:
Y'all are way too complicated.

Great guitar > cord > great amplifier.

E.g. 1964 Strat > cord > 1966 Vibrolux Reverb

Add a touch of reverb to taste . . .

Any questions?
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If I had that, that's how I'd play it.

And I'd still have a high gain rig with delay, comp, eq, wah. Appreciating one way doesn't diminish the other. :D (They're also ways of getting completely different sounds)

(Was that a random hypothetical--the 64 strat & 66 'verb? Or is that your rig? 'Cause I have a friend with that EXACT rig and it's every bit of perfect just like it is! Hey--are you him?)
 
Guitar->Cable->Amp as the only acceptable rig setup? Chrissakes, I'd hate to see your spice rack in your kitchen. Do you just put salt and pepper on everything you make?

Effects are like cooking spices. They're used to generate variety, texture, and exciting new flavors. They do the opposite of "water down" guitar tone. They enhance it when used properly.

You still need a solid foundation of Guitar->Cable->Amp because no amount of effects will compensate for shortcomings of your guitar or amp (think of how many people post here asking which distortion pedal they need to buy to get their Line6 amp and Affinity Strat to sound like a top heavy metal guitarist), but condemning the use of anything else is pretty myopic.

I just hate it when guitarists drown their guitar and amp's tone with too many effects. It's like the cook who can't help but throw fist-fulls of cayenne, cumin, chili powder and paprika into the chili pot. I call it the "POD syndrome" :) Too many effects at your disposal frequently results in the urge to use them all at once.

Effects aren't the core of your tone. They're accessories, and should be treated as such. But they have a definite value for most guitarists.
 
lpdeluxe said:
Pedals? Those are for tinkerers, not musicians.
Click to expand...
IF you only want one or two sounds.

But I gig for a living and I need LOTS of sounds so I've got a pedal board with about 8 pedals on it.
And even then I've got a stable of around 14 tube amps I choose from depending on the gig, style of music and size of venue.

I never use an EQ pedal however ...... that seems a little useless to me unless you've got a crappy amp or git.
 
Lt. Bob said:
IF you only want one or two sounds.

But I gig for a living and I need LOTS of sounds so I've got a pedal board with about 8 pedals on it.
And even then I've got a stable of around 14 tube amps I choose from depending on the gig, style of music and size of venue.

I never use an EQ pedal however ...... that seems a little useless to me unless you've got a crappy amp or git.
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Sorry. My guitars and my amps are slightly better than crappy. And I still use an eq pedal.

Think about your tone controls--whether on your guit, your amp, or even other pedals (I don't use OD/distortion pedals on this rig BTW--so no tone control there). With your bass, mid, treble (or even plain "Tone") controls, you're emphasizing or de-emphasizing a fairly broad swath of frequencies with a fairly broad curve.

But what if you want to grab a much more specific frequency and notch it out (or up)? The result is more "specific" than a tone control, and can prove quite useful.

If your rigs sound great--I'm not telling you to buy an EQ control. My rig sounded great to me, and a fellow player that I respect a lot came to a gig with this 10 band EQ. We had this same argument--and he just let me borrow it. I gave it back and promptly bought my own. :)
 
WhiteStrat said:
If your rigs sound great--I'm not telling you to buy an EQ control. My rig sounded great to me, and a fellow player that I respect a lot came to a gig with this 10 band EQ. We had this same argument--and he just let me borrow it. I gave it back and promptly bought my own. :)
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I suppose I wasn't clear so let me explain myself.
The gist of my post was that I support the use of pedals and I didn't mean to sound like I was saying "Don't use an EQ pedal".
What I meant to convey is that I don't personally see the need and I did say "It seems to me" which is another way of saying I mean this to apply to myself only.

I know at least 2 git players I respect that use one. I don't ever need one ..... I like the amp voicings on all my amps for what they are but I definitely understand EQ's very well and I certainly see what they could be useful for ...... I just never need one myself enough to take up pedal board space and I certainly wouldn't consider them the "secret" to great amp tone.

I also know dozens and dozens of great players with great tone that DON'T use one and a couple of great players with great tone that DO use one so it's a personal choice and you should do what sounds right to you.

I really try hard to stay away from the idea that any of these decisions are 'right' or 'wrong' because I don't believe right' or 'wrong' are valid concepts for such choices.
It's all personal taste.'
 
Lt. Bob said:
I also know dozens and dozens of great players with great tone that DON'T use one and a couple of great players with great tone that DO use one so it's a personal choice and you should do what sounds right to you.

I really try hard to stay away from the idea that any of these decisions are 'right' or 'wrong' because I don't believe right' or 'wrong' are valid concepts for such choices.
It's all personal taste.'
Click to expand...

Yep. Well said.
 
Tadpui said:
A power attenuator is a device that you connect between the output stage of your amplifier and your speakers/cabinet. It takes some of the output power from your amp and dissipates it as heat, and then sends the rest to your speakers.

What this allows you to do is crank up the master volume on your tube amp, while keeping the final output volume as low as you want it. This lets you get power tube saturation/breakup while keeping the final volume tolerable. It's power tube breakup and saturation that produces that trademark tube amp buttery smooth, "warm" distortion. This is opposed to preamp distortion, which tends to be more harsh and brittle sounding (think solid-state Crate practice amp distortion).

What all of us tube amp horn-balls love about our amp is the sound of the power tubes really cooking and distorting. Then you blend in some preamp distortion for saturation and sensitivity and there you go!

A power attenuator is kind of like a second master volume that you stick right before your speakers. Kind of. Sort of.
Click to expand...

All true, but most attenuators are simple resistors, and as such they present a static load to your amplifier, i.e., the impedance is the same all the time. A speaker is a reactive load, that is, the 8 ohms (or whatever) is the average over time; the instantaneous impedance at any point in time is all over the map. An attenuated amplifier is going to sound different than a speaker loaded amp - maybe a little different, maybe a lot.
 
I, too, felt the paper was heavy on repeating the same theory, and light on actual (sound file) examples.

I have never used an attenuator, but they do have some appeal to me. I'd probably own one, but the good ones cost about the same as a low-power tube amplifier (used, what was considered cheap stuff from the 60's or 70's) so I have never dropped the dime on one. I have pretty much decided to see what tone I can get from my little Monkey-Wards "Model 6000," by replacing all the worn-out caps. It's only about 5 watts, and I like it's tone well enough as-is, so if I can get the tone better and get the hum way down by paying less than $10 and installing a hand full of caps, I will be a very happy man!

But one thing that no one has mentioned, but occured to me as I read the paper:
guitar>EQ>Distortion or OD pedal>another EQ>Wah (or whatever)>amp may be all well and good, but if the guitar has a 3- or 5-way pup switch and two tone controls, the EQ's are 8-bands each, the pedal has a tone control, a Wah is a wierd tone shaper, and the amp has two or three tone controls on each of it's two channels... that's something like 25 to 31 DIFFERENT TONE CONTROLS. Given that most of them are continiously tweekable across their entire sweep and thus have a (theoritical) unlimited number of positions, (or even if you say that each pot has only about 3 to 5 real different positions) that is an ungodly number of different settings. NO ONE can possibly keep track of all those illiterations. I personally have enough trouble with just the tone controls on the guitar, one or two pedals and the amp. How are you possibly going to keep track of it all???
 
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