Tube Amp vs. Line 6 Toneport

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ben Logan
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It's funny but before HangDawg exposed the recording method everyone was saying it was a modeller. As soon as he says it's not everyone says "I wouldn't have guessed a modeller"...

The bottom line of the deal is this, unless you are recording a CD with hopes of getting signed to a label, who cares!! Whatever sounds good to your ear, or your friends or whoever listens to your music is all that matters!!

Most people can't even tell the difference and this thread is proof!
 
gvarko said:
It's funny but before HangDawg exposed the recording method everyone was saying it was a modeller. As soon as he says it's not everyone says "I wouldn't have guessed a modeller"...

The bottom line of the deal is this, unless you are recording a CD with hopes of getting signed to a label, who cares!! Whatever sounds good to your ear, or your friends or whoever listens to your music is all that matters!!

Most people can't even tell the difference and this thread is proof!
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You are right. I'm sure most can't. After working with this band however, I am more tuned in to the subtle differences between using digital and micing up an amp. Even when I've gotten close to the sound I want using the J-station, I still just doesn't sit right although often times I guess it's acceptable. And believe it or not, it takes longer to get a good sound with the J than it does to mic up my amp. That and the amp will sit better more often in different songs so once the mic is positioned correctly I have all the different tones I need by just switching guitars/pickup or changing the channel/settings.



/edit

Another thing I find difficult with the modellers is that digital nastiness stacking up. There's times in these guys songs that there are 4-5 different guitar parts going at once. like the end of this one



That's not counting doubling. You start stacking POD tracks up like that and it WILL sound like ass.
 
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gvarko said:
It's funny but before HangDawg exposed the recording method everyone was saying it was a modeller. As soon as he says it's not everyone says "I wouldn't have guessed a modeller"...

The bottom line of the deal is this, unless you are recording a CD with hopes of getting signed to a label, who cares!! Whatever sounds good to your ear, or your friends or whoever listens to your music is all that matters!!

Most people can't even tell the difference and this thread is proof!
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You're the one that's funny. I wouldn't have pegged that as a modeler at all. And if it was I'd be the first in line to buy it. It's funny that you feel the need to come on here and call everyone out after the fact, where were you when he first posted it? Also I'm actually the only one that said I wouldn't have guessed a modeller so I guess you're directing that straight at me. This thread isn't proof of anything BTW.
 
jonnyc said:
You're the one that's funny. I wouldn't have pegged that as a modeler at all. And if it was I'd be the first in line to buy it. It's funny that you feel the need to come on here and call everyone out after the fact, where were you when he first posted it? Also I'm actually the only one that said I wouldn't have guessed a modeller so I guess you're directing that straight at me. This thread isn't proof of anything BTW.
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Wasn't directed toward you at all. Just pointing out the fact that a few thought it was a modeller until after it was revealed.

I wasn't calling anyone out as you put it. Just making fun of tone snobs who think it's necessary to mic a Mesa full stack to record a riff that only you and your friends will ever hear. If you are recording to make money, get a record deal or have your song on the radio, then yes the recording does matter. If you are like the 89% of home recording musicians it's just for fun and your own personal satisfaction. If that is the case, a toneport or whatever it is just fine.
 
HangDawg said:
That's a real drummer.
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My comment wasn't intended to be a slam or anything...just to be clear. There was a fill (maybe around 1:45?) that sounded electronic to me. That's all.
 
gvarko said:
Wasn't directed toward you at all. Just pointing out the fact that a few thought it was a modeller until after it was revealed.

I wasn't calling anyone out as you put it. Just making fun of tone snobs who think it's necessary to mic a Mesa full stack to record a riff that only you and your friends will ever hear. If you are recording to make money, get a record deal or have your song on the radio, then yes the recording does matter. If you are like the 89% of home recording musicians it's just for fun and your own personal satisfaction. If that is the case, a toneport or whatever it is just fine.
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I don't disagree with your assesment, however I was the ONLY person to say it didnt sound like a modeller after the fact, so I was the only one, in your opinion, being a snob, so that is kind of directed to me. When I listen to a modeller it often has that tell tale "fizz" especially after you layer the guitars. This clip didn't have it and unfortunately I couldn't listen to it until after Hang Dawg had posted what it actually was. I do record other bands for profit and trust me I am a SNOB when it comes to guitar tone.
 
jonnyc said:
I do record other bands for profit and trust me I am a SNOB when it comes to guitar tone.
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Understood, and if it was my money I was paying you to record my band I would EXPECT you to be a snob.

If you record at home for fun I think a Toneport, sound card or tape deck is fine. As long as you like the way it sounds who cares!!
 
hiwatt357 said:
My comment wasn't intended to be a slam or anything...just to be clear. There was a fill (maybe around 1:45?) that sounded electronic to me. That's all.
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There are a couple of spots in other songs too that sound that way.
 
Ben Logan said:
Hey Folks,

I've owned Toneport for about six months now. I've got three Fender Tube Amps in the garage. But, having two young kids, I just don't have much time to set up mics anymore - a heartbreaker!

Line 6 Toneport is my bread and butter for HomeRecording currently. I kind of hate to admit it, but I'm really starting to like this little beast. It'll never substitute for the real deal when you want some earthy grit, but this thing is a load of fun.

Any other "real amp recordists" finding themselves edging toward the "darkside" of homerecording?
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NOPE!!!!!!!!
 
Whoever neg'd me for my "comments" is a pussy. Sign it next time!!!
 
Ben Logan said:
Hey Folks,

I've owned Toneport for about six months now. I've got three Fender Tube Amps in the garage. But, having two young kids, I just don't have much time to set up mics anymore - a heartbreaker!

Line 6 Toneport is my bread and butter for HomeRecording currently. I kind of hate to admit it, but I'm really starting to like this little beast. It'll never substitute for the real deal when you want some earthy grit, but this thing is a load of fun.

Any other "real amp recordists" finding themselves edging toward the "darkside" of homerecording?
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Well, first, let me say that I have four kids under age 7 years, so I figure any creation of music is better than giving up and doing nothing at all! I've moved somewhat away from the big tape machines to recording with my Mac, which is very handy. I've even recorded using a D/I, when I wanted a clean signal that I was going to process in bizarre ways in the DAW.

But for a real guitar tone, I have no such line level device... I still use my old Traynor with GT EL-84 adapters for that raspy tone and low power into a single 10" speaker, usually a Jensen re-issue. Going low power helps keep the levels down a bit. I might even go smaller, with one of those single ended Class A amps, like the cheap Epiphone head. I also think I might pick up an old Gibson Explorer. I used to have a GA-79-RVT, which had a great tone, but also more problems than I cared to fix, but I'd like to have a smaller, single channel amp with that same tone. I also record in a treated concrete storm cellar, which knocks the SPLs down quite a bit, except for the pathways through the air return that runs through a soffit in an upper edge of the studio.

Otto
 
ofajen said:
Well, first, let me say that I have four kids under age 7 years, so I figure any creation of music is better than giving up and doing nothing at all! I've moved somewhat away from the big tape machines to recording with my Mac, which is very handy. I've even recorded using a D/I, when I wanted a clean signal that I was going to process in bizarre ways in the DAW.

But for a real guitar tone, I have no such line level device... I still use my old Traynor with GT EL-84 adapters for that raspy tone and low power into a single 10" speaker, usually a Jensen re-issue. Going low power helps keep the levels down a bit. I might even go smaller, with one of those single ended Class A amps, like the cheap Epiphone head. I also think I might pick up an old Gibson Explorer. I used to have a GA-79-RVT, which had a great tone, but also more problems than I cared to fix, but I'd like to have a smaller, single channel amp with that same tone. I also record in a treated concrete storm cellar, which knocks the SPLs down quite a bit, except for the pathways through the air return that runs through a soffit in an upper edge of the studio.

Otto
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That little epi head with some decent pedals is pretty amazing. I'll tell you though, it's still pretty damn loud.
 
ofajen said:
Well, first, let me say that I have four kids under age 7 years, so I figure any creation of music is better than giving up and doing nothing at all!

Otto
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Otto, my question for you, being a Dad of four kids under 7, is "are you getting ANY sleep?" I salute you.

My TonePort sessions don't sound ultra-inspiring. Then again, neither do my recordings of my Champ or Deluxe lots of the time. What I'm HAPPY about is that TonePort is good enough (I only use the "lux reverb" emu - the rest blow chunks bigtime imo) that I don't automatically blame Line 6 when my guitar tone sucks. In my mind, that represents a step toward modelling being an actual contender.
 
I´ve been following rather a lot of these "modelling versus amp" threads for the last couple of years, and I´d like to give a somewhat different perspective on the whole discussion.

A lot of years ago, when I was around 15-16 I had a huge interest in music. Being from a poor family I had no chance at all getting all the gear I needed to make the music I wanted to make. I managed to buy an old (really bad) electric guitar, but that was as far as I got. Byuing an amplifier was flat out impossible. And even if that would have been a possibility, I couldn´t record anyway. So I discovered I could run the guitar through my homebuilt stereo amplifier, and get a cool sound...until it burned up. Playing on just an electric guitar is really not inspiring at all so my interest kind of died. Ok, fast forward to about four years ago.

I had been aware of the advances in making music on the computer, so four years ago I got myself a keyboard and a couple of vst synthesizers, a basic recording software (cubasis) and started making music. And I could actually create something for the first time. Two years ago I took the plunge and bought an electric guitar again and started playing. An amplifier is still not reasonable for me (because of neighbours etc) so I bought a line6 guitarport.

When I look back to when I was 15, what I have today is mindboggling! Which makes some of the opinions about modellers just a little extreme in my view. Modellers do not sound like crap - a really bad electric copy of a copy through a cheap homebuilt stereoamp or, as it where, no amp at all does!

I still use the guitarport together with guitarrig and I can finally make some music. I´ll never be a pro but I don´t want to, I just want to make music.

A historic perspective can sometimes be a good thing, and when I look 30 years back in time EVERYTHING we have today, guitars, modellers and amps sound like heaven.
 
I max my Triaxis and Simul Class 2:90 through a Palmer PDI-01 amp sim, it's great! I can control the volume while driving the tubes, great for recording while the babies are asleep;-) Check it out.

I have a PODxt - it doesnt come close to what I want, my Digitech GNX-1 had more punch but now I have a Boss GT-Pro and I'm very happy with it - great tone and very easy to tweak (USB to pc to for direct recording too). Nothing I have heard through a modeller can come slose to my Mesa rig but each piece of gear has it's own place in my setup, GT-Pro for certain tones and Mesa for others. Horses for courses.
 
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Ben Logan said:
Otto, my question for you, being a Dad of four kids under 7, is "are you getting ANY sleep?" I salute you. QUOTE]

Thanks! Actually, that's been a bit of a problem since our youngest was born on Sept. 25th, but I got enough rest last night, for a change, if not as much actual sleep as I would like. At least I don't have a headache this morning from lack of sleep, like I did the last few days.

Cheers,

Otto
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jonnyc said:
That little epi head with some decent pedals is pretty amazing. I'll tell you though, it's still pretty damn loud.
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My amp uses a pair of EL-84s (about 15 watts) so it should be about twice as loud as the Valve Junior. From a sound and recording point of view, a pair of EL-84s through a 10" speaker is just about ideal for me. It gives me a focused tone to record and the tubes and speaker cone start to work hard at just the right volume to give a satisfying, visceral feel without too much hearing damage. But it's just a bit loud for when kids are asleep. I'm thinking a single ended, single tube Class A amp, at about 5 or 6 watts would be a little lower in volume, but, through an 8 inch speaker, should still be focused and matched to cone breakup and give a good sound to record.

Otto
 
ofajen said:
My amp uses a pair of EL-84s (about 15 watts) so it should be about twice as loud as the Valve Junior. From a sound and recording point of view, a pair of EL-84s through a 10" speaker is just about ideal for me. It gives me a focused tone to record and the tubes and speaker cone start to work hard at just the right volume to give a satisfying, visceral feel without too much hearing damage. But it's just a bit loud for when kids are asleep. I'm thinking a single ended, single tube Class A amp, at about 5 or 6 watts would be a little lower in volume, but, through an 8 inch speaker, should still be focused and matched to cone breakup and give a good sound to record.

Otto
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I'm not sure if the power ratings work like that, maybe they do. I don't know, can anyone confirm that a 15w amp is twice as loud as a 5w amp. Someone here a while back said the epi pushed 108db thru a single 12 cab.
 
ink3 said:
.

When I look back to when I was 15, what I have today is mindboggling! Which makes some of the opinions about modellers just a little extreme in my view. Modellers do not sound like crap - a really bad electric copy of a copy through a cheap homebuilt stereoamp or, as it where, no amp at all does!

I still use the guitarport together with guitarrig and I can finally make some music. I´ll never be a pro but I don´t want to, I just want to make music.

A historic perspective can sometimes be a good thing, and when I look 30 years back in time EVERYTHING we have today, guitars, modellers and amps sound like heaven.
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Nice one ink3. You're right. The fact that we can even debate whether or not an amp-sim like toneport or guitar-rig "comes close" is pretty amazing. I too grew up plugging my guitar into my panasonic stereo (with 8 track player). I was amazed by the RockMan when it came out in the eighties (I think).
 
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