Britney Spears, 'N Sync and others

Musicsdarkangel: Shut up.

I'm assuming you're under 18 like myself, and you're embarrasing the younger generation.

I agree that Finger 11 kicks ass, and all that, but I still think you are a jackass. I play in a hardcore band, and I don't think for one second that my songwriting is any "better" then N'Sync. It's a whole lot fucking different, thats about all. I can't stand any of those bands, but everything that has to do with their music is perfect. it sells just as much as the record companies hoped for, and it's exactly what society wants.

I can't stand them, I say again. I think they are mindless robots made to satisfy a general populous that I also can't stand. But then again, I can't stand most mainstream things. Just get sick of that shit.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but everything is NOT a rendition of Smells Like Teen Spirit (maybe everything you make, but most deifnately not what they do). Give me ONE good example of a recent pop song that ripped off Nirvana. Sorry, but it ain't gonna happen.

All music is somehow dervied from the Circle of Fifths, and other theory, even in the most vague terms.

Now please stop giving our generation a bad image, it's hard enough as it is to get any credibility.

Jake
 
Duran Duran are masters of quality pop music, they wrote all their own material, chose their own producers and the band were very gifted musicians. I don't understand how that can be compared to New Kids on the Block or Britney or Nsync. Duran Duran were a real bonafide musical group, not a dance troupe who can sing.

Musicdarkangel: Please listen to the song Rio by Duran Duran and listen to the complex bass guitar work that drives that song and listen to the ultra-tight fast hi-hat pattern that Roger Taylor displays on the song.

In my opinion music from the 20's,30's,40's,50's,60's,70's,80's and 90's has plenty of quality music to offer any music lover. One cannot simply tarnish a certain decade and not back it up.
 
Exactly!

jrlemonz: You GET it! Thank you. All I was really trying to point out, was that even in a style of music you don't like, there is often something to admire.

Take punk music. I need a song to have a strong melody, or I generally won't like it. And that includes a lot of punk, but there are a lot of punk-inspired bands, such as the Clash and the Jam, that I can really get into. And, as much as some might cringe at this, but without your punk bands, I wouldn't have my Duran Duran or Smiths. It was a natural progression.

And punk was a kick in the ass that rock music happened to need at the time.

One more thing I'd like to say. I think that a great single is MUCH HARDER to write than "quality music". Sure, I'm classically trained. I've played in bands and orchestras. I've composed, arranged, and conducted. And I could write "quality music" for you all day. I could impress you with my "vast" knowledge of theory, structure, and instrumentation. (I'm being a little fecitious here, but you get the idea.) But I'd never release an album of that, and nothing but! Why? Because I don't think anybody would like it! The real challenge, to me, would be to write a melody that touches each and every one of you guys. Or, to write a lyric that says something meaningful to all of you. Or just to write a damn dance song that makes a million radio listeners want to get up and dance.

Yeah, I want to do music my own way. I want it to be real, and I want it to mean something to me. If a song I write doesn't mean anything to me, then I won't be able to perform it with conviction, and everybody that I respect will be able to see that. But, if I write a song, I sure want you to like it. That's why I got into music in the first place.

You use music to express yourself. And if you're very, very lucky, you might just express something for someone else, too. That's my dream.
 
If I were offered the ticket by a label, I'm not going to lie and say I am too much of an artist to take it. Heck, I've already sold out by doing session work for radio jingles and such. But in doing so, I acknowledge that I am becoming part of a product, just like a BigMac or a Nike shoe.
But the people who's work I admire most are true artists.
Also, I agree that Duran Duran can't be lumped in w/ the above mentioned bands. I think most people recognize the difference between artists and pop star "products", just as most people recognize the difference between the olympic atheletes and the WWF. I guess where you stand on this depends on weather you're wanting to see talent on stage, or a spectacle on stage.

I prefer talent. But I like to go to Vegas too.

Aaron
http://www.aaroncheney.com
 
None of it sucks...

It's a mass-marketed product. That doesn't make it either good or bad. I first listened to top 40 stuff when Cousin Brucie was still doing the countdown and Michael Jackson was singing ABC. Bubble gum. It's the same thing, really, it's just that then bubble gum cost 2 cents each and now they have super coated sparkly bubble gum pops for a dollar. I like it, actually, never lost my sweet tooth, just don't reach for it first.

My nine-year-old son likes Brittney. My nine-year-old daughter thinks she's too slutty. Good. My thirteen-year-old daughter thinks Brittney is stupid; she likes the Goo Goo Dolls, and Mozart.

I don't see how one can deny that songs that appeal to so many people are, at least in the context of their genre, good songs. It's not like adult singer-songwriter or young indie stuff is so complex and sophisticated by comparison. Sometimes I watch The West Wing on television and I say, "this is the best-written show".

Maybe it is, but it's still TV.

And we don't elevate ourselves by ridiculing others.
 
*sigh* dear jrlemonz,

I'd like to tell you, that I didn't mean to piss you off in any way. Obviously you get easily pissed. Alright, well, you know, NSYNC DOESNT EVEN WRITE UP THERE OWN MUSIC. Buddy, think before you talk. =P. If you write worse then nsync, i guess you don't write at all, eh?
 
The Bay City Rollers were the hottest act around in the mid-seventies. They sold tens of millions of albums and sold-out every arena they played.
Nowadays, they are all a bunch of broke, pathetic losers who have nothing to show for thier success.
Same thing goes for Lief Garrett... a pathetic junkie.
Hopefully, the present boy-bands will continue the trend and end up in Loserville.

Bye Bye Bye.... LOSERS!!! ;)
 
Re: *sigh* dear jrlemonz,

musicsdarkangel said:
I'd like to tell you, that I didn't mean to piss you off in any way. Obviously you get easily pissed. Alright, well, you know, NSYNC DOESNT EVEN WRITE UP THERE OWN MUSIC. Buddy, think before you talk. =P. If you write worse then nsync, i guess you don't write at all, eh?
Click to expand...

Ok...... you're even worse then I thought. I don't get easily pissed off, unless someone as apparently ignorant as yourself starts acting Mr. Know It All Newbie. I am well aware that N'Sync doesn't write their own music, when I said
I play in a hardcore band, and I don't think for one second that my songwriting is any "better" then N'Sync. It's a whole lot fucking different, thats about all.
Click to expand...
guess what I meant? That my songwriting isn't any better, just different. It isn't worse either. It isn't the same, IT'S DIFFERENT. I never said their writing was better then mine. Maybe YOU should think before you talk. Or maybe it would be better to just not talk at all, you don't seem to be doing anything to contribute to the board really. You're gonna have to redeam yourself somehow for me to take anything you EVER write seriously.

Jake
 
What about the Beatles? When I was a "kid", all the grown-ups were pitching a fit over this crazy new band with long hair and all that. But the talent there speaks for itself. When I hear B.S., or INSYNC (did I spell it right?) or the media compare the hysteria to that of the Beatles, IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!! Just had to get that off of my chest. However, I wouldn't have minded if when I was 12 years old, someone with "connections" decided that I had possibly a little talent, and molded me into a little money making puppet, because by the time I was the age I am now, I would have enough $$ not to give a shit about making $$, and put out some good material for the sake of putting out good material.
 
I have been pondering this whole blah blah blah for a long time just like everybody here and I believe there is a simple explanation here. The prob is that HUMANS suck and are natural followers and they listen to to anything that is publisized, like religion like politics like hit movies like MUSIC. Its not just the fault of record labels its also the ignorance of us to listen and try out new stuff. PPl who like the pop stuff generally dont even know about indie labels, about metal (ok, they might know about metallica) because they dont care. They know what they hear on radio and tv (whatever is commercialised) and thats that.

The proof is that ppl who mix with the alternative scene just listen to alternative (god forbid britney is allowed to live) and just hate everything else, same with pop bunnies, same with metal heads and goths. Very few ppl actually listen to a wide range of music genres and most stick to what their friends like, and thats bad, that means to me that the problem lies with us. Commercialism would not exists if it were not for a commercially minded mob, so we are to blame.
 
jrlemonz

dude, listen, you obviously have an attitude. I'm gonna take a wild guess that you're the type who joins one of those poser death metal wanna be bands and burps over the mic. Test me buddy, i'm no newbie, i'm not saying you are, but you sure appear to be. At least I know nsync doesn't even write there own lyrics. THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK "my new quote for the day. man people can be stupid.
 
If the author of this thread was setting out to illustrate how small some music listeners' minds can be, I would say that he succeeded admirably.
 
{I like your style Eurythmic!
Expertly subtle... well done. I can't do that... I just tell people to shut the hell up when I don't like 'em. :) }

There was a post near the beginning of the thread that covered the idea that Britney and co are targetting young teeny boppers, and what is the harm in that?
Well that's a good question!
I think it may just BE harmful to expose kids to this mindless drivel. When I go to malls I see these hoards of cloned zombies in Britney clothes with Christina make-up, checking out the 'older' 15 year old boys with the same deal going on, just different designers.

A bit dodge no? The clothes are actually the least of the worries. This kind of music carries an attitude with it, and I think it is the attitude that really sells the music. Lyrically the songs are often tongue-in-cheek, and videos (which are the main marketing push) are very risque. Do we really want our newbie teens trying to emulate this? As much as Britney appeals to young teens, she is of legal age and CAN do things like this... there are good arguments why younger kids shouldn't!

ciao
NS
 
it's funny. some people (or even most) still don't realize one simple thing: being able to copy an artists work doesn't mean you've got the same artistic skills.
the less you can copy it the better it is? no way. some of the simplest songs are great, some paintings with only a dot and a line on it too (though I wouldn't buy it).
most people would think they could do it too. but they couldn't. why? they may have the skills but they haven't got the ideas.

listen to songs like 'wild thing'. just great, I'd say. maybe I'd play it with one hand broken but that doesn't mean it sucks.
listen to some "hardcore jazz"-sessions. great technique (I really adore these guys) and a lot of knowledge about music theory but just not that catchy.

darkangel, you said your writing is good but your recording sucks? well, one thing I found out in my young recording career (hohoho) is that no matter which recording-/mixing- genius treats your songs if the song is bad you can't get a great mix. really. I had to find it out with some of my songs too. it may sound good when you play it live the guitar/vocal way... but recording it you realize that the arrangement or even the whole song sucks.
my english skills are too limited to explain that any further... just don't overestimate your writing skills.

finally I just have to say: I really don't think britney's a great singer - I don't even like her looks and I'd punch in her teeth because I hate her unnatural exaggerated smile.
I hate the voices of N'SYNC and 80% of the voices of the backstreet boys and I don't believe they sing without any technical helpers just because they do that obligatory a capella chorus after each interview.

BUT never forget the robbie williams phenomena... I think he writes great songs (and hey, I'm really not into pop) and he's just what I'd call a real artist. did any one think he could do that when he sang with take that?

what I want to say: live and let die... err... no, live.

p.s.: for that duran duran thing: i like simon lebons voice - you'd really hear it out of a thousand voices.
 
Royston said:
The thing I hate about Britney, Nsync & Backstreet Boys is that you KNOW they don't particulary like the music they sing. They know it's a short term great monetary payoff and when they have made their money then some of them may actually start to make decent music that they really believe in.

PLEASE don't tell me that the Backstreet Boys actually enjoy their fan base being 13 year old girls, I'd bet a million dollars they'd rather have 20 something male & female audience that appreciate their work.

They see it as a job nothing more nothing less. not liek most artists who do it to make original high quality meaningful songs.
Click to expand...

Royston your right it's a job. The record companies make millions from a quick trend. Some people do it for love while others want the quick buck. I can't say I hate or dislike these artist, but I wish they tell the truth for a change.
 
I guess I can sum this thread up... Britney et al are employees who are being given credit for the work of an awful lot of very talented people. They are a product, they are not artists. There may be artists involved, but they are not them.

Now, is the package a bad thing? That seems to be a seperate question, but in my opinion, with the quality music out there, both new and old, the resources being put into this package could be better (better as in, better for society, better for the music ART as opposed to necessarily for the music industry) used in letting people know what the options are.

But guess what, it won't be. Do you know why? Sturgeon's law - 90% of everything is crud. OldGrover's corollary : That includes people. 90% (and I think that is generous to the masses) of all people do not think for themselves, do not want to think for themselves and are not capable of thinking for themselves. Elitist? Sure. But I'm elite (Give me warez, d00d (sorry)). I can think, I can reason and I make up my own mind. I listen to a huge range of music and none of it because someone tells me to. I walk into used record stores and buy CDs at random on the off chance they might be worth listening to (90% of them really aren't, but you get the occasional gem :) )

Corporations are taking their position as the governing force in peoples lives. Governments are getting less and less relevent (segue into a discussion on the Quebec conference if you like here). It used to be communities built culture - now it is people in boardrooms. <shrug> The packaged crap is not the problem, the problem will come when the packaged crap is all you can find.

We, the Home Wreckers, are the new terrorists of the music industry. Sure, some of us will sell out - more power to us if we can :) - but some of us will make sure that real music, music from the soul, music from the heart, still gets made.

And that - my friends - is something that neither the corporations nor most of society gives a rat's ass about.

<end rant?>
 
no, I suck

I went and listened to some stuff that I did back in the 1980's. Whew! It was bad. Britney and NSync sound like genius compared to my old drivel to music.
 
six.....

i'm not saying im a genius songwriter or anything, but when I recorded the songs, I liked each and every one of them. I just want to get the fuzzes out of the recordings plus I want to get better distortions and stuff. All of my friends like the songs too.
 
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