Learning songwriting from books. . .

B

Brian R.

New member
I have done some thinking about this lately, and about music theory in general over the last few months, as I have gotten back into guitar playing in a big way after being dormant for a number of years, and I've come to this conclusion: My guess is that VERY FEW people have ever written a hit song after reading a book telling them how to do it. I simply don't think that writing good music can be reduced to something that you can put on paper and communicate to somebody through using just words and paragraphs in a book. I've spent ALOT of time recently trying to learn a little bit more about music theory, scales, and such, and I INEVITABLY end up pulling my hair out in frustration. At first I thought maybe it was because I was just unable to comprehend the stuff the way most people do, but then I finally realized that it is because I feel that music is something that hits me on a very emotional level, and I don't really think that translates very well to something that is written down on a piece of paper, or website, or whatever, saying "play an Cm Pentatonic Scale over such-and-such chord progression, and throw in an inversion to color your playing when using this-or-that mode". I guess I just get real frustrated when reading about something that is really meant to be HEARD, not read. . .

I hope some of the above makes sense! I just had to vent a little, because this is something that has frustrated me plenty over the years, and it reared it's ugly head again today. . . From now on, I'm just relying on my ears. If it sounds good, then theory be damned!!!

Brian
 
Nice Vent Brian. No odor either.
I can relate to what your saying. Very much so.
When I wrote my first few songs they were very basic in word, melody and chords. I checked a book out of the library that left me confused and frustrated.
I don't rememeber what exactly, but I did get some good ideas from that book. Whether I ever used them, I can't recall, that was like thirty years ago.

All I can say to encourage you is to do what feels natural to you. If your still having problems, change your approach to the problem area. Some of us have to work hard on a song we just wrote, a lead solo we just played, finding the right chord progression, etc. I've tried writing the words first, the melody, began with a lead. Now I never try to write a song, I never try to make a new lead solo.

What I do now, is record every practice session I do. I work on some new song my band is working one, but I also drift off into just picking away, letting myself get carried away with no control over where the music I'm playing at that moment is going.
I listen to it later and discard the parts I don't want to keep and save the parts I think I could improve on and add to a project I'm currently working on or something I've been saving.
You ever play something and can't remember it later? That's what I'm talking about here.

We each have our own strengths and weaknesses, I guess that trick is finding them and using what we have, as musicians/songwriters/performers to our best ability.

Man, I do relate to what your saying. Don't discard all books and such completly. One day you may open a book and find its the way the author explains something that 'clicks' in your mind. Everyone writes differently, everyone percieves what they read differently. When you do read a book, keep an open mind, gleen what you can use. Every bit of knowledge and tricks of the trade will help.

Good luck. Hope ya find your peace.
 
I think music theory IS useful to an extent, but I'd be wary, in the wrong hands it may be a destroyer of a person's inspiration.

If you over-rely on theory you may find yourself bending your ideas to fit around the 'rules' of music.

This is problematic to me because I believe music doesn't have any rules outside of the inverted commas. :)

-Matt
 
music theory is the language of which we, musicians, speak to understand one another. before you can knowingly break the rules you must first learn them. however, paul mccartney said in a recent interview on larry king that he still cant read music.... but i prefer to further my music theory education so that i might be more able to write that which i feel but cannot express when i speak.
 
I know what the notes are on the music sheets, but it takes me forever to transfer those notes into a bit of understandable muisc. But I can play about anything I set my mind to, merely because, I know my scales, modes and a fair share of the language.

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When I posted about keeping an open mind on what a person reads in a book, matt's post;

I think music theory IS useful to an extent, but I'd be wary, in the wrong hands it may be a destroyer of a person's inspiration
Click to expand...

is what I ment. I've seen some way out explainations in books.
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Even though Paul can't read music, he knows his theory. It shows.

It'll take more than Paul's inability to read music, to convince me that theory isn't that important. Paul has his way of doing things, we all do. Some people are more 'gifted' in some areas than aothers.
The more theory a musician has under his/her belt, the better equipted they are to make great strides in their own original material or cover. And even though I can't read music my self very well, I honestly think that if you can, your one more step ahead. Please don't think that just because I don't read much music either that I'm comparing myself to Paul, or even his music.
The more you know about what your doing, sacking groceries, digging ditches, programing software, playing music, the easier it is to change things, execute your ideas, add to someone elses work. Music isn't set in stone, it's very flexible, and what everyone has posted here proves just that.
We all have our own set ways in our minds of how we do things on what ever instrument we are playing, but the final out come, the song, music, etc, is what really matters.

Cripes, I break rules in music all the time. Most musicians do, because we can, because we know the language, theory.

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Matt,
If you over-rely on theory you may find yourself bending your ideas to fit around the 'rules' of music.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Again, knowing theory, makes it that much more flexible.
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Something else, when I play with a group of musicians I have never played with before, we talk music language, verably, that someone outside the music business or the musician who doesn't understand theory, has no idea of what we are talking about.
I, IV, V, or flatten that 4th, for example.
It saves having to explain each chord in a given progression. If someone has written a song and they play lead guitar, they may ask the other guitarist to play with them in Locrian or Aeolian.
It save time and makes a musicians life so much easier.
 
Someone once asked me if I could read music. I said, 'not enough to hurt my playin'.:D

Theory is good but if it begans to frustrate you to the point of dreading to play and wanting to throw your instrument across the room then, PUT DOWN THE BOOK AND SLOWLY STEP AWAY FROM IT!

Don't try to swallow the hole book in one sittin'. Take what you know and build on it, in smaller bites. Put it to practice as you learn it.;)

Be sure to have times when you use the book as a door stop and just play. :D

<><
George
 
You may not know theory, or not be able to read music, but after playing for a few years you are using the principals of theory wether you know it or not. Usually what sounds pleasing to the ear is following theory principals. Usually what sounds dissonant to the ear is following theoy principals.:cool:
 
Alright, I may have seen the light! I found a decent website that seems to explain rudimentary basics of theory in a few short, easy to grasp lessons. I'm going to give it a chance. . . I'm not looking to become an "expert", just trying to learn enough so I know what to do the next time I need to figure out a smooth transition from a verse to a chorus and such. Thanks for the input, and keep it comin'! :>)

Brian
 
Just because you can read music doesn't mean you know theory. The two skills are completely separate from each other. I learned how to read music by being part of the school band program. I didn't know jack about music theory until I took ear training courses several years later. I will say that there is something very beneficial about learning those basics of sight-reading that apply to all instruments across the board: not necessarily what note applies to what position on the fretboard or keyboard, but rather understanding time signatures and being able to count out what you see on paper. My writing has been conditioned in the sense that if I write something in a non-standard time signature (which I find I am doing more and more these days), I understand the principal behind it and have more success writing the next phrase that will keep the drive of the piece going.. Furthermore, I never have difficulty writing drum tracks, since I know where the rhythms need to fall..

That being said, I purposely write chords and progressions without any logic whatsoever.. I practically throw my fingers on the fret board and if I like what I hear, I'll develop it further.. Usually theory kicks in after the fact when the voice in my head says "you know what, you just played a minor 6th chord, dude.."

I will say that on some occasions, theory can push you in another direction you wouldn't have gone before. This is particularly true with modes. Spend some time learning your modes. The flavors can be an inspiration, and you can always combine modes to come up with something unique.. But don't get too caught up in modes, because it's someone else's standard of what popular music should sound like, and you don't want to get boxed in.

Cy
 
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