11' x 11' x 8' Acoustic Paneling Advice Needed

[HoldenH13]

Hi everyone!

I am currently working on improving the acoustics in my home recording studio. I know there are many knowledgeable people here, and I am hoping to learn something from what you have to share.

To start, here is a floor plan of my studio room:


It is a 11' x 11' x 8' bedroom with shag carpet.
The star shows the location of my desk / studio monitors.
There are 2 big windows that are shown on the right side of the room. They are covered by miniblinds.


I was am planning on starting out by adding bass traps to get rid of some of the low end buildup in the corners. There are some 12" x 12" x 24" bass traps that are being sold in a 6 pack on ebay for about $140. They look very similar to the Auralex panels I have seen.

I was going to go ahead and get these, but I read somewhere that foam panels may not do much to absorb frequencies lower than 150 hz. Can anyone confirm if this is true or not?

If it is true, what should I do?

The room I am using has a ton of metallic sounding echo when I clap, and I believe it is due to the fact that there is a drum kit in the back right corner. I hear that drum kits will cause problems for the acoustics if the room isn't treated. Do you think the bass traps will help remove this metallic echo?

Also, I am worried that these 6 bass traps may deaden this room too much.

I am really in the dark on this one. I have tried to research as much as possible but it seems like everyone says something different about what should be done. Can anyone here give me some advice on what would be the best way to acoustically treat this room?

 

[Massive Master]

A) Yes - The foam stuff is pretty worthless ESPECIALLY considering that you're inside of an acoustical nightmare.

B) The metallic echo is comb filtering and flutter echo due in no small part to the fact that you're inside of a square.

The "stock recommendation" (which is really for just about any room, but especially important in your case) would be 2'x4'x4" broadband panels, floor to ceiling, in all four corners, plus high-side corners front, rear and to the sides in line with your head (12 panels in this case).

The "sweet spot" in your room is theoretically 4.2' from the wall (that's where your head should be). The most horrible spot in your room is a mere 16 or so inches away.

Also, I am worried that these 6 bass traps may deaden this room too much.

FOAM stuff can easily deaden the room "too much" -- Proper broadband panels will "smooth" it -- And you can't use too much. In that space, you could literally cover the walls entirely and still have low end issues.

I don't envy your situation... I was in a room with just slightly better dimensions and a dozen traps hardly made a dent.

Meh, I shouldn't say that -- It DID make a dent. But the acoustics were SO bad that all it really did was clear up (acoustically speaking) exactly how bad the space was.

Look at RealTraps - Home and Acoustic Panels | Bass Traps | Diffusors | GIK Acoustics for more detail.

 

[HoldenH13]

Thank you so much for your response! I have taken into account some of the things you would said; however, consider some additional information about my setup.

B) The metallic echo is comb filtering and flutter echo due in no small part to the fact that you're inside of a square.

You mentioned that the metallic echo is because of flutter echo due "in no small part" to me being in a square room. I have realized that the echo is partly due to flutter echo; however, I will have to disagree with you on the fact that it is due mostly to it being a square room.

Take this into account: I have an adjacent bedroom which is across the hallway from where my studio area is. It is exactly the same dimensions. I do rough tests of the acoustics by clapping my hands in each room. When I clap my hands in the studio room, I get lots of the metallic flutter echo. On the contrary, in the room across the hallway, there is absolutely NO metallic echo. I can hear a mild echo in this room when I clap, but it is not metallic sounding and is not near as bad. In fact, I would say that it is 1/4 as bad as is in my designated studio room. The rooms are almost identical except for that in the room across the hallway (not my studio) there are two windows which are not side by side. They are on different walls.


Tomorrow, I am going to take the acoustic kit out of my studio room to see if it is truly the kit which is causing lots of problems. I have read in other forums that people take their drum kits out of the room once they are finished because it is so detrimental to the room acoustics. Have you heard of this? This may not be true, but it is what I have heard in several places. I will compare my clap in both rooms to see if there is a difference in acoustics, and if there is, I will move my studio across the hallway.

I guess the first issue I need to deal with is which room is better. Because they are the same dimensions, I figured it wouldn't make much of a difference (except for the window placement), but I am going to remove the kit to so I can extract the variable which is bothering me the most.

I am not expecting to get absolutely perfect results from my room, as I record people in it sometimes as well as mix in it. My most important concern is being able to mix in it, because right outside of the door of the studio, the hallways splits into 4 directions (like a 4 way stop) and all of the sound seems to go in each direction. This is sort of a "sweet spot" for me and there is not too much echo I have to deal with. I just want to conserve as much space as possible in my studio room while improving the acoustics as best as I can. My studio desk will most likely have to be against the wall, and I already know this is bad news.

I really need advice on how to improve what I already have. Anything would be helpful. Thanks!

 

[Massive Master]

I have read in other forums that people take their drum kits out of the room once they are finished because it is so detrimental to the room acoustics.

Undoubtedly -- A bunch of resonant chambers in the room aren't going to help anything. And sure, it could be a good part of the 'metallic' part.

 

[RAMI]

Square room="acoustic nightmare".

As far as acoustic treatment, get the word "FOAM" out of your vocabulary. It's useless. Look into rigid fibreglass and related products.

The drum kit isn't your problem. I have 2 drum kits in my studio and they do not make or break the sound.

Also, if at all possible, get rid of the shag carpet. A hard-wood floor would be a big improvement. I know that's not always possible, but it would help.

 

[HoldenH13]

Thanks for your response, Rami.

Some things you said have made me rethink my entire room strategy. I did some more research about acoustics in square rooms, and I'm realizing that I may be fighting a losing battle here. I went around and measured the other bedrooms in my house to see if they would be any better. So, here are some additional questions for you.

I measured the room across the hallway, and it is actually (124.6 sq. ft) 11' x 11'4" x 8.' Will the extra 4" make any difference at all as far as making the acoustics in that room any better?

The other room I have measures (111.61 sq. ft.) 13'8" x 8'2" x 8.' This room is smaller and has 3 windows instead of 2 like the other larger rooms. I hear that rectangular rooms are better for listening in, but if I used this room, I would be giving up studio space and would also be dealing with that extra window. Do you think this room would be better? And, if I used this room, would I be able to use foam instead of rigid fiberglass or roxul?

I just really hate the idea of building my own roxul panels and placing them in the corners because that is going to eliminate even more much needed studio space.

And that metallic sound I was talking about definitely has to be the drums. I did a clap test in the small room and heard a similar metallic sound in it. I realized that the sound was coming directly from an exercise ball which was in the room. I took it out of the room and that metallic sound disappeared. I have no doubt that the drums are resonating and causing that horrid metallic echo. I'm guessing by taking them out of the studio, I will get rid of that echo but of course, it won't solve the room modes issue.

Any more advice?

 

[GIK Acoustics]

I know this is an old post, but for anyone who comes across this thread again, I feel these are very good questions that a lot of people have..

Sorry I wasn't on the forum sooner Holden!

Some things you said have made me rethink my entire room strategy. I did some more research about acoustics in square rooms, and I'm realizing that I may be fighting a losing battle here. I went around and measured the other bedrooms in my house to see if they would be any better.

Square rooms aren't ideal, but I don't think its a losing battle. They can certainly still be dealt with, and are still dealt with in the same manors (you just might need extra bass trapping). Treating the corners with thick traps like tritraps/superchunks or soffits along with the first reflection points are a great start to treating any room, and can give some good results - even if the room is square.

I measured the room across the hallway, and it is actually (124.6 sq. ft) 11' x 11'4" x 8.' Will the extra 4" make any difference at all as far as making the acoustics in that room any better?

It actually CAN make a difference, though this depends per room. The main problem that makes square rooms a pain to deal with is modal resonance. To give a simple rundown, a "mode" is a frequency that relates with the distance between two boundaries. Whenever these frequencies are played in the room, they will ring out (or 'resonate') longer than the note that actually came out of the speakers. Normally, all three dimensions will have (many) different modes. This means there are technically 3 times the amount of modal resonances in number, but most of them won't ring out for EXCESSIVELY long times, or be excessively loud (but will still be present). When you have two dimensions the same, this means you'll have less modal resonances, but they will be MUCH stronger. It is much easier to deal with a larger number of less intense resonances than it is to deal with a few very loud and resonant modes. For example, a cubed room with a huge resonance at 40 Hz would be difficult to treat with porous absorption, and impossible to treat with foam. A 4" difference can be quite dramatic in the world of acoustics, and while you'll still likely have problems really close to each other on the low end, they will be more spaced out as you go up on the frequency spectrum.

The other room I have measures (111.61 sq. ft.) 13'8" x 8'2" x 8.' This room is smaller and has 3 windows instead of 2 like the other larger rooms. I hear that rectangular rooms are better for listening in, but if I used this room, I would be giving up studio space and would also be dealing with that extra window. Do you think this room would be better?

Unless you have the choice to construct rooms from the ground up with a good amount of space and good wall construction, I almost always opt for a larger room (especially when we're talking this small - this other room is 10% smaller than the other room!)

Though the room is much better L&W ratio, the W&H are almost the same size, which likely wouldn't be good as pointed out above.

And, if I used this room, would I be able to use foam instead of rigid fiberglass or roxul?

I just really hate the idea of building my own roxul panels and placing them in the corners because that is going to eliminate even more much needed studio space.

Foam isn't very effective for use as a bass trap. Check out the study we did here comparing foam to GIK 244 Bass Traps: Comparing Foam to GIK 244 Bass Traps

Note that there are 12 corners in a room, not just 4. You can mount panels higher up to alleviate some floor space and use traps on the wall/ceiling corner to save as much space as possible. You will still need some treatment on the walls, but not all of it has to be at floor level.

And that metallic sound I was talking about definitely has to be the drums. I did a clap test in the small room and heard a similar metallic sound in it. I realized that the sound was coming directly from an exercise ball which was in the room. I took it out of the room and that metallic sound disappeared. I have no doubt that the drums are resonating and causing that horrid metallic echo. I'm guessing by taking them out of the studio, I will get rid of that echo but of course, it won't solve the room modes issue.

It could also be flutter echo - especially when coupled with resonant things in the room, flutter echo can really be a pain even though it can be treated quite easily. Absorbers, diffusors, and anything of the sort can generally kill flutter echo quickly.