Plug In Chain

I

imalion

New member
Hello to everyone. and Happy New Year too.

I was just fooling around with a mix of mine in Cakewalk and I am adding some plugin FX to some tracks. A question just occured to me, and I dont have the answer for it. So here I am seeking out wisdom again.

Question:

Does it matter what order I add the FX plugins in Cakewalk?

example: Compression before reverb or visa versa?

Thanks in advance for the help.


Steven
 
Question:

Does it matter what order I add the FX plugins in Cakewalk?
Click to expand...

Not really. It depends on where you want to go today.

If you want to emphasize a frequency range i.e. make it stand out, you will run the EQ prior to compression and turn up the range you want to stand out. Compressors tend to bring to the front the most dominate (loudest) frequencies in the signal.

If you want to control the color a compressor adds to the signal, you will EQ after the compressor. Lets say the compressor is bringing out the high end clickiness of bass guitar strings. You might want to EQ after the fact to reduce that range and give the bass a more low dominate sound. Or, just the opposite can occur where too much low end is coming out of the compressor.

Reverb should generally be set out on an aux buss and mixed back in with the main or unaffected signal. This is not mandatory however. If I need to EQ the vocal in the mix I put one plug in EQ on the main vocal or instrument track (It's better to track the correct EQ though) I will then send any special effects I need to an aux bus with the plug ins i.e reverb, flange, phase, delay.

If I do not like the native sound of the special effects I may place an EQ either before or after the special effects chain so I can focus in a just a specific range of a vocal or instrument to be effected. This is especially useful for vocals with reverb or delay. By focusing on specific frequency ranges you can really clean up a sloppy reverb or delay that is clouding the mix.

Same with drums. A common technique is to zero in on a specific part of the snare, toms and cymbals to control the reverb sound and give the effect that they are in a big room. You control what frequencies come out of reverb or delay and make sure they are not conflicting with the part of the vocal signal coming out of their own reverb/delay. Keeps the mix clean sounding and in control.

All this holds true unless you are going for that garage band sound. Then just turn it up to 10 and hit record. Just kidding of course, even garage bands need a vocal to sit up front.
 
Maybe I'm confused about your phrasing Middleman, but the order of the effects chain makes a huge, huge difference. . .
 
mallcore pop,

Maybe you just didn't read my thread. The gist is, it depends on what your trying to accomplish.

Jeez, out of 381 words you key in on the first two. That was meant to be in a casual tone as if you can't really screw things up by experimenting.
:rolleyes:
 
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Ah, got it!

I read the thread (the first time), I just wanted to know what you meant by 'not really.' Threw me off there, a moment.

No harm, same page!!

Thumbs up!!


Dumbcore :D
 
No harm done. I have a sinus infection and am feeling cranky. Sorry for the terse tone, I should have started that one off a little differently.
 
Re: Re: Plug In Chain

Middleman said:
...If you want to emphasize a frequency range i.e. make it stand out, you will run the EQ prior to compression and turn up the range you want to stand out. Compressors tend to bring to the front the most dominate (loudest) frequencies in the signal.
Click to expand...

And here I come pestering you on this one.:D This an angle I haven't seen before. I'll want to try it out. What threw me though was my preconception that the compressor would tend to un-do if you put the boost ahead. But maybe not. Cool.

Maybe when you get to feeling better. (Soon I hope.:)
Wayne
 
The compressor does not undo it simply flattens the peaks above the threshold which has the audible effect of emphasizing the applied range. They use this technique to get Britney's groans forward in the mix. Also can be used to fatten a track in a specific frequency range.
 
with plug-ins watch the delay they incur. especially when you "stack" 'em' up. can someone please say phase problems? why thank you. I don't need that silly track delay, what is dat fur? I prefer eq after compression. The compressor generally ends up flattening the frequencies you just boosted. I don't like fighting the compressor. Your mileage may vary though: in the wrong direction. Merry christmas ass bandits.
 
I have to agree with malcore pop, that the shain of fx does make a huge difference. Not that there is a set order of how effects 'should' be chained, but that the order can dramatically change the outcome. Obviously, any effect down stream of the signal chain is going to be effected by anything done before it. The goal is to get confortable with what each effect does so you will know what will happen before you apply it and order effects based on this. That said, there are some rules to go by, like always gate before you compress, etc.

Some of you were saying that compressing after eq will tend to even back out the frequencies that you just boosted or cut. I am a little confused in that compressor doesn't change the frequency balance it is just a volume control. So if a portion of the audio is being compressed it is exactly like taking the fader and pulling it down through loud passages. It shouldn't effect the frequency balance of the material at all. Please explain, or maybe I misunderstood what some were saying.
 
lemme explain junior. if the frequencies you boosted become the loudist part of your program material after boosting then your compressor will essentially reduce the volume of the frequency spectrum you just boosted. please note the "if" in this conditional statement. if you are doing a lot of cutting (which i highly recomend) this statement still may apply because the compressor will affect the frequencies that remain uncut, that is if the "if" condition still remains, i.e. the uncut frequencies are now the "loudist" part of the program material. Generally you end up with a sort of frequency dependent compression with the eq pre compressor. However if you are aware of this you can avoid the problem. Still I like to keep it simple, compress the peaks you wish to tame (we are only talking dynamic range, not frequency) then eq to taste. Time is money people.
 
So what you're saying is that compressors are frequency dependent? If I had a signal that (in theory) was perfectly flat across the spectrum with a 5db boost at 1k and I compress the signal 5db, you are telling me that the frequency response is now flat again?
 
No. Try it this way.
With a signal at threshold, as you boost somewhere, the detector sees it as an increase in level and turns the whole thing down.
If the boost is large in proportion to the dynamic jumps in the signal, it might be significant.
It's the same thing as going in at the side-chain with eq. Jack up 5k enough and the 'first' thing the comp 'sees' is the boost. Otherwise it leaves it alone.
An Un-eess'r.:D
Wayne

Oops.
If you boost 5 at 1k and the track is playing scales, as it passes the '1k' note, it would tend to put it back to 'flat.
 
sweetnubs said:
The compressor generally ends up flattening the frequencies you just boosted.
Click to expand...

if the frequencies you boosted become the loudist part of your program material after boosting then your compressor will essentially reduce the volume of the frequency spectrum you just boosted.[/QUOTE]

I must have just misunderstood what you were saying. It sounded like you were saying that the compressor will change the relationship between the boosted freq and the other lower amplitude freq. But the comp actually is just reducing all the audio. Obviously based on whatever part of the signal was above the threshold.

Thanks for clarification.
 
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