PiltdownMan here... struggling with this mix...

P

PiltdownMan

New member
Okay, I know something's wrong here, but I can't quite figure out what. I only recently discovered the joys of compression, which has helped me tremendously, but I still find something lacking in this mix. Give me some advice on:

Everyone Will See
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2881&alid=-1

Two caveats: 1) the lyrics are placeholder only, just to get a feel for the melody. I will likely change them all -- or most of them. 2) my Roxio mp3 ripper must suck. I rip at 128, but when I listen back to my own posts, they sound WAY compressed and "shiny." Are most others posting at 128 for bandwidth sake? Should I invest in a different ripper or rip at 160 or 192? This sounds 100% better as a WAV.

Thanks for your help again, ladies and gentlmen.

(P.S. I use an Aardvark LX6 soundcard, $60 Electrovoice mic, a Jackson PS-4 guitar through a Zoom 2020 effects board, Alesis QS6 keys, DR-008 drum machine and Cubase 5.1... so I have to work my ass off for decent sound. :-)
 
If it sounds way better as a wav on your end than the mp3 it most likely is an issue in the algorithm used by the converter. Over here it lacks dynamics on the guitar, being almost constant "against the wall" but it sounds good, like the pressure 15 ft in front of a hot maxed out jcm with a full stack. I think if you backed it down a touch, carved a bit off the low end of the guitar to let the kick, toms, and bass come through a little more distinctly it might help. Bring the vocal up some more for better definition. A different converter or different bit rate algorithm might work. Can`t really tell here since we cant hear the initial wav to compare. I use Winlame or dbpower amp.
 
cool song! I like the vocals in the chorus.. the drums don't cut through the guitars enough.. they sound very midi.. different samples would help.. louder bass drum.. the drums sound techno and the guitars sound metal.. the bass needs something too.. I really like that chorus! good riffs.. this tune desperately needs a fatter bass drum and snare..
 
Damn, Sabbath, you are so right! The thin drums are a big part of the problem. This song started as a techno song and sort of transmogrified into a harder song (happens a lot with me). Having spent so many hours listening to it in progress, the drum sound never dawned on me.

Unfortunately, I have to use MIDI drums. Don't have the cash or space for a fully mic'ed set, though I spent a dozen years playing drums and could probably do better with a real set.

Anyway, I appreciate your comments and will work on the drums.

I love constructive criticism. :-)
 
yeah most of use use midi drums, but you just have to try and find better samples..

and then I'll nit pick about the guitar sound.. :)
 
Well, first I pour the maple syrup all over my......and then the old lady........oops, never mind. Different thread.....

Great little tune there! Yup it needs a bass part. Maybe ease up a bit on the phone booth sound on the fuzzy guitars. There really overwhelming. Vocals are fine and the most interesting part in the song, though it is a catchy little melody none the less. I thought it was going to be a Rush song for a minute there with some of the cord progressions but then that thought went away.

Fuller drums would be something nice and traditional but this genre of music pretty much lets anything be correct.

From what I have heard on the previous track and thread of yours, I have no doubt you'll work it out correctly with or without us.

Nice stuff!
 
PiltdownMan said:
sort of transmogrified into a harder song
Click to expand...


How often do you get to use that word, transmogrified? I'd really like to start using it. It's a cool fucking word, no?

Anyway, I saw this falling off the front page with only a couple responses...and I don't like that happening. I'll try to listen after work, but I can at least give you a bump for now...
 
Thanks, SLuiCe. You're a gentleman and a scholar. It's really difficult to get people to actually listen and give cohesive, rational reviews of mixes and songs here, I've found. Or maybe my stuff just sucks that bad. I don't know. Anyway, as Bartles & Jaymes would say, "Thanks for your support."

By the way, I find it odd (unless I'm just overlooking it) that there's no forum on this site for simple song critique. I know some of that goes on here, but why can't there be a non-mix-oriented section that just says, "Hey, here's a song. Do you like it or not? Why or why not?" It could be the mix or the structure or the lyrics or whatever.

Sorry. I just think that would be both fun and helpful.

Carry on.
 
Hey man I loved this tune! I want more vocal, just enough to make out the words. I think you'll find once you've kicked around here for a while, you'll get what you need, including quite a bit of feedback on the songs themselves. In fact, I think most people feel most confident giving that kind of critique more than mix critiques.

I thought this was great, and I try to say what I mean, almost to a fault sometimes. Get those vocals up so the sarcasm isn't so veiled. It's quite ok to be angry, as long as it's not mock anger contrived for radio.


Tom
 
Thanks, SLuiCe. The low vocal is, I think, a subconscious response to being not completely comfortable with the lyrics or the vocal. I should know by now that burying a vocal doesn't solve the problem. As I said, it's subconscious. That's why I come here for the opinions of my peers and superiors. I'll definitely work on that and fatten the drums, per Sabbath (I think). You guys have been a great help. Thanks.
 
Pilt- I came here doing the same thing. You almost wouldn't know I even had a vocal track. I hate my voice, but it's the one I've got. So I use it the best I can. Get the level up and you'll hear ways to change what you don't like. I think you're voice is great for your music, and it will only get better with time and persistance. I don't mean that to sound condescending. I'm just telling you my own personal experience. Have faith- you rock.
 
Cool tune for sure. Fast swing feel and the vocals are very in 'the groove' which is great. Can only echo what others already said. Vocals need to come up. I do find them a bit 'harsh' sometimes, not sure if it's the mic or what. Mainly on the chorus where a lower vocal in the left channel is going 'I don't know, what you can say to me' - 'say' really pokes through, maybe drop some mids out of it or something.

I found the drum beat a bit busy at first, but after a few listens I can see how it can fit. I like to hear bass guitar do a more active part in certain areas, like the second part of the first verse the bass could come in doing an 8th note pattern, with the odd switch of note, ascending run type stuff. I don't know, might not work at all, I'm not a producer. Guitars I find a shade muddy, but not overall a pretty solid sound.

Nice stuff.
 
Very nice. I really loved those guitar sounds. I will echo what has been said. Beef up the drums (new samples?) and raise the vocals (We need to be able to grab onto something that pulls us through the song.)

Programming was cool. You were a drummer. That shows.

This song has a lot of potential. Let's hear this thing fully blown out!!!!
 
nice song dude... very cool vocals during the chorus.

the distorted guitar sound... bad. very bad. the fundamental is there, so i wouldn't re-cut them. hi-pass the low at 90-100, take 250 and pull it down 2 to 5 db, take 800 and pull it down 2 to 5 db. it's not a bad sound, it's just really murky. get rid of some of the muck, and everything else below it will begin to shine through.

also a little sheen on the top of the guitars would help with definition.

i really liked the vibe of the song though... i listened to your other stuff (i'm new here, so pardon while i catch up) and totally dug Butterfly Kisses as well.
 
Very cool song.. I particularly like the way you sing the vocals and the fast swing of the piece. I would definately look into a stronger drum sound. I like the multi-timbral work, but I think it would really cook if there was some oomph just behind it. Bring in some more bass too. I thought I heard a couple drop out points where the drums got lost on the left momentarily. Almost a panning inconsistency.. Do you hear that on your end?

The guitar sound is stuffy.. but this may be intentional. If so I really like the effect as it adds a neat charm to the piece. But I can also see it with a live guitar sound too. If you are wanting a more live sound, then bringing up the percussion and bass may help (or taking the guitars down a notch) and add in a little more reverb to give it some space.

Overall a great tune that doesn't tire upon repeated playbacks.

Cy
 
As you have recently found out how compression can cause your lips to flap up around your head and totally envelop and transmogrify .... ahhhhhghhhhhgggghhh

whew ...

Send everything except your vocal to one bus and compress that bus.

Send your vocal to a seperate bus and do not compress it at first, compare the meters between the two different busses.

Look at the meters on those two busses. You could mix this with the vocal meter set on -INF and you might still ask yourself ... 'is the vocal to loud ?' ... because your dream electric sheep ScReAmiNg the vocal ... ahem ... you are very familiar with the vocal.

The meter on the vocal bus should be 'more' dynamic, it should be 'soft knee', the instrument bus 'hard knee' ... IMHO, and that is situational, that can all tRaNsMoGriFY !!! AAaaaahhhhhggghhh !!!

We at homerecording.com want to hear your vocal, we want to hear you, and understand the words the first time around, so's we can dig at the other stuff on the second and third listens ...

The vocal is always the star, there is no machine, wooden or metal or virtual that is more important than the ultimate biological acoustic instrument ... mouse chirping ... no !!!!

The human vocal ;-)
 
The guitar punch is full, spherical and monsterous without being too ... dirty ..., the drum samples of course do not match it in quality.

As you know by know, your vocal is buried in sibilance due to your overuse of effects, and you don't need all that crap, you have a unique vocal that is very welcome on this bbs, let's hear it ;-)

By 1:42 you have got me in your 'groove', work on establishing this earlier, because I REALLY feel like I am in the song at this point, I'm 'willing' to go along with you here, in your groove.

Whatever makes the 'groove' work so well here, take it to other places in the song ?

Get to work finding some better drum samples, get a download manager, they are out there, get them, it's just hardwork, upgrading, gotta make the time old boy !

These punches at 2:52 are freakin' awesome ! maximum groovage. My virtual coffee table is dribbling ...

Harmony vocals are a big, big pet peave with me, don't cheat us out of harmony vocals EVER, harmony vocals are GOLDEN !!! ACHTUNG !!!

You can condense and cut this song, it's almost 5 minutes long, you really do have a lot of material here. If you cut it and polish it effectively you have a winner here, big time. It's got pop scratched all over it.

Ok at 4:04 this is almost an acceptable vocal level and use of effects, you should go dryer and higher at other points in the song, and use this vocal level as a reference.

It's best to mix drier first, and then folks will tell you it's too dry and needs such and such ...

On the second listen, I see you are 'leading' a chorus vocal at 4:04 ... if I'm having a challenge to understand the words when you believe you've pushed it to the max to ride out over the chorus vocals ... you see, you are very familiar with words and you begin to treat your vocal ... like an instrument ... YOU ARE THE STAR ... SHINE.

And try addressing the vocal by first lowering the instruments, and seeing what kind of headroom you have for the vocal.

Remember the two discrete busses idea ... this will give you a good visual of the headroom you really have.

I think ending it at a brickwall is appropriate.

Now that I'm listening a second time, the groove you throw up with the drums is clear now, you just need meatier samples.

Yes, you are using compression well, don't get tempted to overuse it.

On the second listening I'm still struggling to understand the vocals, and for a pop lyrically driven song the listener should NEVER EVER feel the slightest bit challenged, even for a split second, should never feel a challenge is coming ... to u-n...D+=.e)>?r8,stand the next word. ;-)

We are both pan american speakers, no excuse here ;-)

Your vocal is the star here, don't smash it pumpkin ...

This has elements of DEVO in it, consult some DEVO mixes, see how they did it.

Check out Sluice's mixes, I think your vocal style in the mix may be similar ...
 
.....studioviols is tough to follow but here goes.....try the recommended EQ cuts on the guitar and maybe bring it down a tad....the drums may be quite usable once the guitar is straightened out....take the advice on vocals...I also have learned that less is more when it comes to effects on a vocal track....a strong unique sounding voice is often better than a buried heavily effected vocal track....the tune is GREAT with a lot of interesting instrumentation and arrangement.....you definitely have a "sound" here....cool stuff!
 
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