New snippet up

kgirl72

New member
Hi guys,


Okay, I think this email is really for about 4 guys on this board who seem to show some interest in my very NON heavy stylings. Again, song was just sketched out, and may never get completed. This is what I did last night for fun.

If you don't like smooth female vocals, don't even bother clicking the link. Or songs about love/heartbreak, etc. I can't help it...I'm a chick.

Compassion

The whole thing needs to be redone and rounded out. I can't play drums, ha ha, so my drums are certain to suck. There's little timing/piano mistakes, and I abruptly let it cut off at the end of the second verse. I'm a singer, but I'll attempt anything. :o I think I can get it all to work correctly and not make all those mistakes later.

So, just to get my feet wet again, have at it...say whatever you want for future reference when I dig into this next time. Comment on anything. You can't hurt my feelings, well you can, but I won't let you. I don't care, and I'll listen to all of the advice.

There are some glitches in there too...anyone know what's up with that, or how to get rid of them? I'm sure I can do a search to find out.

Anyway, the song is called Compassion, and it's NOT finished, but I like to have people listen now. It's fun. There's about 3 minutes, or 2 verses, 2 choruses for you to hear.

Thanks!
-Kirstin:D
 
Ooh yeah, nice voice

I like the piece. Technically it could use some work but the vocals are very nice. The piano is good, but not quite right--not fluid enough for the piece. The drums are weak :) .

Keep up the good work, I really enjoyed it.
 
Hi sloop

Thanks! I am definitely in progress...I may never get any piano stuff or drums right. I need some players!

But, it's fun anyway.
-Kirstin
 
Aw kgirl, this has got to be for more than 4 people. I've never reviewed anything from you, but I don't know why. So here goes...

Nice voice. Real smooth and expressive (but not overly expressive). Good piano. Sounded real ambient. Not sure about the part. Maybe smooth it out, get rid of those stutter-stop chords? Definitely a song worth working on.

A little pop at :59. Some around 1:11-1:14. Or are they from a percussion track? Kick drum maybe? Big pop at 2:39. Wait, now it got better. Do you have multiple kick drum sounds going on this one? It seemed to change and sounded good a few seconds before the end.

Some timing things as you mention.

If you keep posting, I'll keep reviewing. :).
 
Kgirl, you're such a great singer. I don't care whether it's 'non heavy' or not, when something has quality it has quality. Period. A delight to hear. :)

I do agree with TripleM that your vocals could be more expressive. Perhaps, a bit too modest? Actually, just like your personality (I hardly know you of course but...). Why not 'break out' a little? You've got the techniques to pull it off! :) Hey, for most of us around here proper breathing techniques and intonation are hard enough. You've got those two in your pocket already. Time to work on something else, perhaps? (just teasin' you a little, hehehe ;) )

Could be a great song. Needs better drums, like you said. Bass perhaps? If you need bass, PM me. I'm totally into transatlantic collabs these days, and I don't know for how long so....eh......grab me while you can! LOL (hope my wife never reads this :) )

I heard the little pop too, btw. Don't you have any idea where it's coming from? Is it on the original version as well, or did it 'pop in' (hehe) during the mp3 conversion?
 
Hey guys...

Yes, I plan on redoing everything about 50 times to get the right feels in there. Like I said, I don't even know really how to play that piano...just like to play it. So, I will work on the fluidity in the parts.

As far as adding a bass...Ped, I'd love that. I will want to get the initial piece pretty well figured out, I think, first. But, I do think it needs some extra stuff...this was just a little fleshing out session I was trying last night. I'd had the chord changes in my head, so I got this far.

The vocals, imo, definitely will need more expression...but I think when the piece starts coming together a little more tightly, then I will be able to do more of that. I'm still writing...always writing. Which really means, always hearing things that need to be changed.

So, basically, I hear you cluckin' big chickens. Ha.

The pops...I don't know what the hell is up with that. It wasn't doing it when I first started last night, but by the end of my messing around, I kept getting the little buggers. They are on the originals...I need to solo each track to find out which one it's on, but otherwise I don't know. I may just need to fix levels on all of them...none of them clipped the signal individually.

Drums...may never be good. I bought myself some books to just learn about different patterns that drummers play. Haven't read them. Ha ha. I have a shitload of soundfonts though that I bought from Sonic Implants. This is the first time I've ever tried to play any drum. I was doing it on my keyboard, so the timing is because my damn fingers have no rhythm. I'll get there. I am a little shy of the whole programming thing...I can do it, I just don't WANT to. I'm a lazy little girl.

When I really get into this, I will have to split all the notes with CAL in sonar, but if I do this, and am using LiveSynth Pro for the soundfonts, will each one still be read with one instance of LiveSynth, or should I record each drum part in a different dxi instance? Anyone know? I'm wondering if I were to use the all audio outputs instead of the first audio output, what that would do.

But, that's another forum...another issue.

TripleM--there is one kick, but I couldn't hear it very well, so I put the Ren. Bass plug on it really fast, and didn't mess with it at all...otherwise, there is nothing extra going on here.

Ped, you've got me pegged. Thanks for your enouragement though. It's a baby step process, and I'm trying to grow here a bit. I've been singing since before I could speak, so it's about the only thing I know how to do decently. I will PM you when I have something more decent. You could probably make do with just a piano track? Or do you want some percussion in there.

Shutting up NOW,
Kirstin
 
I think it's nice that I can tell there is a very delicate and femine hand on the drums. Your drumming is very 'attentive', you really want it, and I think you have a clear idea of the role the drums should play in this song, and I agree with that idea, it is very tasteful. That the drums are not perfectly in time, or played with super technique is a non-issue for this 'writer's scratch'.

What is a 'drum issue' at this point in the development of this work is capturing what is happening with the drums in a format that is consistent, so that the piano and the vocal can be crafted more firmly, to move you and this piece along within the 'Steps of Production'.

You say in your post that you ... think you can get it all to work together ...

You can develop and follow a 'game plan', a set of 'Steps of Production' and be true to those steps, completing them, and then revisiting them with help from board members to finally end up with a really fine recorded performance of these rough ideas, you are feeling this deeply, it is real, I hear that.

Now that you have an idea of what you want to do, drum wise, it's time to find a collaborator to write you a drum track in MIDI based upon a chart that you can provide. Or do this yourself.

Yes, I'm playing producer here, I like to produce and it's all IMHO, I don't mean to commandeer your song or your music, I really, honestly hope for you to be able to coordinate and finish this as a polished piece of music.

You have a voice, a great voice that is crying out for a consistent part that will lend confidence to the performance. I would like to stand directly in front of you in the choir loft and bask in your voice at full volume while you sing the hymns that you probably know so well.

I think you can do most anything with your voice, and I think you have a fine mind to do that with. It's really all about organization and 'Steps of Production'. This could be a heavy duty, and 'heavy on my mind' type of song. You could sell this.

The drums are not a critical part of the artistry of this song, they are a tool at this point, to assist in defining the structure of the song and provide a 'click' for you to sing to. The 'Steps of Production' to move this piece of music further towards a more whole and somewhat finished and polished performance and recording ... demand that the drum part be 'knocked out'.

The keyboard part and the vocal performance are much more 'flexible', they need to be crafted a bit, and with a strong and consisent 'backbone' of a drum track that you the performer know will be strong, and in time and the same every time will give you great confidence in continuing to craft this song. You will then be able to 'release' the drum part, and concentrate on performing the vocal and piano, polishing and finishing those 'elements' of this piece of music ... that we call 'a song'.

The most productive step to take now is to let go of the piano and vocal for a while and 'knock out' a well metered and consistent simple drum part, a MIDI or computer drum part.

Real drums can come later, and much more productively if you write the part, and 'rehearse' the song and firm up the structure and details of the song using a MIDI drum track.

Drums are consistently one of the most difficult instruments to record well and then ... to mix well. Getting all hooked up in that difficulty is a pitfall in production for you at this point. Unless of course you are enjoying messing with all the 'drum stuff', then I'm off base.

If you want to collaborate on this tune, I will write you a very basic and simple drum sequence, or I will find you a suitable board member to do that for you. I'm urging board members to make that offer now.

I think your style can be a great contribution to this board and help round all of us out. It's really blues, I mean ... ain't it all the blues ? :D

Your style, the torch style, is in my ballpark, I like ;-).

But you will have to committ to a chart of the format of the song. That doesn't mean the tune is forever set in stone, you can change the chart, and of course you can cut and paste on the computer and change the drum track easily to follow any changes in format.

A chart is a custom template, and you can find that new songs can be borne from charts of your tunes, indeed, you can define your style much more rapidly and produce a dozen songs in rapid succession with one chart, and exhaust that 'part of your musical being' and then move on to new territory.

Once you have a 'defined' structure, you have something to craft and work within more confidently. Words can be changed here and there, chords can be altered subtley ... melody crafted more finely and more confidently. But most importantly, ambiguity in performance is eliminated, and you can work up to a point where you have format to perform more freely within, rather than searching for the 'live juice' it's all there for you haning on the trees ripe for the picking ... in that particular orchard, that chart.

In your post you have already mentioned structural elements of the song, 'verse', 'chorus' ... etc ...

If you will make a chart in wordpad or even notepad, (and I give an example later based on your performance here), where each 'tally mark' equals a bar or 3 beats you will probably find yourself feeling a lot more in control of this song, this will also help others collalborate with you very efficiently.

The chart helps you to visually place elements of the song in their time context ... where drum fills occur, where breaks occur, where the hooks occur, where harmony vocals will occur.

Ultimately, this song could have some real strings as backing, and that's my specialty, I perform and record with violin, viola, and cello.

I also practice compassion, that's why this song is of such great interest to me. A lot can be done with the word 'compassion' just by itself at the end of this song to 'take it out', especially with what I could hear your voice doing with it.

The chart of course documents the song, much as an Information Technology Project Manager would document any project. To document art, to document music, is the supreme product management IMHO, most folks call that 'being a producer'.

The chart allows you to release the emotional connection to the song, and look at the 'piece of music' from a more crafty viewpoint.

Chart Example :
------------------------------

METER : 3/8
TEMPO : ~80
INSTRUMENTATION : Piano, Vocal, Drum Kit, Strings.

INTRO :
| | | | | | | |

VERSE 1 :
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

REFRAIN (CHORUS) HOOK :
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

PIANO INTERLUDE (Bridge) :
| | | | | | | |

VERSE 2 :
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

REFRAIN (CHORUS) HOOK :
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

ORCHESTRAL-PIANO BRIDGE :
| | | | | | | |

HOOKS OUT (compassion):
| | | | | | | |


I will give you confidence by saying that the method you have used to mic your vocal has provided you with a very nice tone from your voice. I mean the quality and tone of the vocal is rich and lovely, very moody but without bogging our ear down, there is still a crispness in the vocal and it is tastefully processed.

You intonation is pleasing. When you modulate or ... move into a new 'tone center' at 0:56, I think what you are attempting there is very difficult and subtle for the performer's ear, your ear, to grasp solidly. If you will really analyze what is happening there and firmly commit to a 'theory' of your vocal approach there, I think ultimately you can give both yourself and your listener more confidence as you 'move us' there, and that can be a very 'moving' harmonic device, what you want to accomplish there. Perhaps if you take the few notes up to and after that point much more softly, with more 'compassion'.

And again you do this here at about 2:24. Although I hear and agree with a 'theory' of harmony here that you want to accomplish, if you really analyze and concretely define ... how the vocal is moving, in relation to the chords preceding it, and following it, we can all have more confidence in this 'gut movement' of harmony. And I'm feeling a lot of tension here, as the harmony and melody you are using are very theoretically 'tense'. We don't have a lot to anchor us to where we were, as you go to 'where you went'. We as the listener must have confidence in your here, teach us here, convince us to come along, that it is safe to move with you here. Singing this all more gently and softer may provide you with an even more effective device. But I'm convinced just getting a little clearer picture of what you are actually doing, which keys on the piano your voice is singing here, and how they may ... or may not ... relate to which keys are being played before and after, will help you to 'realize' the magic here.

I think all of us really want to hear you open up and 'belt it out' as you probably really have some powerful pipes ... but your strong voice here, singing pensively is very, very effective. Never lose the questions in this song, never lose the 'wonder', that's the anxiety here.

This 'harmonic' trickery you are doing here can be very, very effective as you are using it to highlight the hook 'Compassion'. Don't abandon this, work it, refine it, make it happen because there is magic there in your voice, in your soulful fiber ... you do have soul and it's sweet !

But to boil and condense all the magic out of that brief moment at the hook, this harmonic and melodic tension you are 'wrapping around' compassion, you gotta produce this tune and get this drum track made and release it, and come back to it later.

I'm assuming you are the only musician working on this and that the whole 'baby' is 'your baby'. Consider letting your board members join in with you on this one to help move you along.

Sincerly,
Pat
 
Christ on a bike, Studioviols! How do you find the time to type these monsterposts? Don't you have music to produce or something?! ;) :D

Btw, kgirl72...I don't need a chart....I work by ear. Just send me the cwp file when you're ready and I'll see what I can do for ya. And for your info: I'm using shitloads of Sonic Implants (mainly drums) stuff too so it's gonna be quite easy to help you with the drums.
 
Hi Pat aka studioviols,

You must be the most attentive listener ever. I've read some of your other posts. Thanks so much for all of that. I'm going to read it several more times to make sure I don't miss anything.

Basically, though, I agree with what you've said. I do kind of have a chart going, but it's not organized in any manner...I know how many measures there are for each section, but that's about all. I know the tempo, the bpm, and that is about it. The rest of it just seems to come when I'm screwing around. I'd probably always just be playing something and then adding something then something else. What I'd like to hear is it finished before I start just randomly adding other things. Part of how to get there for me may be to do this fleshing out that I'm in the middle of.

Yes, a consistent and programmed drum click would be great. If you'd like to make one, I'd never turn you down. Actually, if anyone on this entire site wants to ever lay anything down for me...GO FOR IT!!!! For any song ever!

Yes, I've been the only person who's touched this piece. I could never get on a stage and play piano and sing without screwing up. So, I do feel that I'd like to play around with the piano more later, but, anyone who'd even had a few lessons could do this much more easily. It being difficult makes it more fun for me somehow though, plus, damn, isn't a piano just a pretty sound?

Eventually, yes, I'd like to be able to sit down and program all the midi drums I'd need. It will come in time, but yes, if someone were to do this for me, it would be a little learning lesson for me too. I could utilize that and observe what's going on in that midi drum track to learn about how to do this more easily myself. Unless they sent it to me as an mp3--but even then, I suppose just hearing it is good enough to glean some useful info. I'm more timid with what sounds are used when? Because I KNOW there are some standard procedures that I just don't know.

If I had access to lots of musicians around here, I'd call them, and though I've been in some bands locally, there just isn't musically many around here who would want to play with this. Actually, culturally, this place is pretty dead.

Gosh everyone, thanks for all the comments. Keep em coming if you want for those other folks.

Studio, I'm going to read this some more, because there is a lot of information in here that I don't want to overlook. PM me anytime you want...I'll get on that chart, but want to make sure I'm totally not getting lost or missing anything here from your post.

Ciao all,
Kirstin
 
Thanks Ped...

I type pretty long posts too, but man, you gotta love someone like Pat who'll take that much time out just for one other measley person, you know?

What'd ya buy from Sonic Implants? I went on an online shopping spree one day...whee! That was fun, and I am really glad I did it, though I am not sure why I did it! Because I love to blow my not hardly earned cash that I get pretty much for sitting here at my desk typing posts in the HR bbs.

I'm sure glad you play bass too...I have a hard time even hearing the bass generally. I figured my only options were to once again play the keys as bass, or grab my dad's bass guitar, which he really doesn't play either and start pickin' out some notes. Scary.

:D

I'll PM you later on tonight.
-Kirstin
 
Just to let you know I listened and I think you have a beautiful voice. You should try to post more stuff for us. I'm getting kinda sick of men's voices, especially my own. So thanks for the change. :)
 
Oh crap.

I thought that was specially for me. Thanks Khompy...;) I do remember seeing a previous post from him that spelled out the charting aspect too. Is it the same text? If it is, that's pretty funny. He plagiarizes himself. J/K Studioviols.

Sluice, I will definitely try to post more. Thanks for the compliment. I like your voice quite a lot. And, I must say, Jack Skeleton suits you well. I think you could do the voice of a character like that in some other animated film! I think you could flawlessly write music for something like this...wouldn't that be interesting?

My daughter is seven, but quite the little artist. She can do a very convincing Jack Skeleton drawing for you. Maybe you could use that as your avatar? J/K. She is a good artist though. She was on a huge Jack, Zero and Sally draw fest last year. She has her Jack Skeleton and Zero stuffed animals. We lost the first Jack and she made us get a second one.

Thanks guys,
Kirstin
 
I used to sing along to the whole soundtrack cuz it's just so damn fun. Apparently it has come through in some of my songs because Groucho's wife noticed it! LOL. Too funny.

Have her draw Mr. Oogie Boogie. ;) I'd really like to get Lt. Bob to sing the Boogie song. He's never heard it, but I KNOW he'd nail it. :D
 
Who is Mr. Oogie Boogie? I'll try to find a pic of him on the net. Seriously, she'll do it.

Is that the guy from Porky's? If not, this is super funny, but there's that guy running around the cemetary saying oogie boogie while dressed up as a member of the risen dead...is that him? If not, that's a hell of a reference point, no? Just all of a sudden popped up while typing. :p

-Kirstin
 
"...Mr. Oogie Boogie says, there's trouble close at hand
You'd better pay attention now, cuz I'm the boogie man..."

He's a character in Nightmare... Listen to his song- it's brilliant! :)
 
Sluice : I have a song I've recently written called 'The Park' you can see the lyric and the thread on the discussion board that spawned it here : http://www.patricepike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=80

It's got that whole 'Grinch that stole Christmas feel to it' ... you'd be perfect .

As to any 'Paranoid Androids' on this bbs, if you listen to Kirsten's song and follow the little pizza man who bounces on the chart marks you will see it is an 'original chart' ... thank yewwwww

I have made this 'charting post' before and I do this so that members of the board might better be able to finalize thier productions so that I can then score mightly and incredibly profound string arrangments for them ... I am ... humbly yours ...
 
sorry kirstin but...

...Pat, do you have music/theme for that yet? The meter seemed pretty clear and the voice soon followed, at least in my head. Let me know what you're thinking via PM's. I'll be owing you one for Taken soon...


Back to your regularly scheduled celebration of Kgirl's fine voice...
 
Few songs compell me to respond...

I listen to lots of songs on this site, and for most of them, I listen politely and move on to the next one. But this one compelled me to respond. You probably hate being compared to popular artists, as do I, but you are totally channeling Fiona Apple here. That's a huge compliment. Fiona Apple, IMHO, is one of the most original, sexiest (voice-wise... well, and otherwise), most talented artists in music (if you listen to my music, you'd have a hard time believing I'm into Fiona... oh well).

If I had two wishes:

Less vibrato/tremolo on the voice. Nothing is more arousing than a long, held-out vocal note with no vibrato. I first noticed it with Alice In Chains, and it changed my vocal landscape. I can tell you have the voice. Vibrato is a cover-up or a sign of lack of confidence, usually. Use what ya got, and you got it.

Better timed drums. The sound is okay, but, like others on this thread noticed, they do occasionally miss the beat. Retrack or go to MIDI (there are several MIDI drum programs that sound relatively realistic).

Overall, I really like this. It's a refreshing change of pace. Who are your influences?
 
Sluice,

It's okay that you hijacked my thread...ha ha. I'll forgive you.

PiltDownMan--Do you know, who are my influences is such a question. There are people I love to listen to, and they are usually women--I do LOVE Fiona Apple, and have never been compared to her, so thanks for that. I also love Alicia Keyes but want to hear something new from her. There's Nora Jones, I love Tori Amos, and Sarah McLachlan...Jonatha Brooke, and for the guys...I love XTC and Radiohead quite a lot. Pink Floyd, and so many others...god, that would be a list.

But, truthfully, I've not been listening to much music other than this stuff...and my own little recordings. How do you know whether they've influenced you or not?

I really don't care if I am compared to others, sometimes, it seems like the only way to describe something. I know we're not identical or anything, so it's cool.

As for the vibrato thing...I hear ya. I know exactly what you mean. At least I don't have that lamb-like baa thing going on. You know what I'm talking about there too. When I have some confidence about the song itself, you just wait mister! J/K. But, I've heard that before too, and it's great, but the vibrato that comes out finally at the end in a woman's voice can be pretty nice too, you know, it holds for a while, then the vibrato comes in...the money note I think they call it. ;)

Seriously, thanks, I think this is a very nice compliment.

The drums are nowhere even final! I'm going to let lots of others join in here and help me out. But one day I'll want to feel confident with this too. I can wait that out.

EVERYTHING will be retracked...probably a million times, LOL. I'm probably sitting on about 15 or so other songs I've got floating around in this little brain. So much work, so little time.

Thanks all you fellow bbs-ers, you are making me feel very welcome. I so appreciate that.

-Kirstin

I love the HRbbs.
-Kirstin
 
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