Stems in Session Delivery

D

dean1964

New member
This is for the pro mastering guys they hang out here. I'm wondering how common it is for Mix engineers to deliver mix stems along with the 24/44.1 files. Do you or have you ever requested stems after the initial delivery so you might make a balance adjustment to something they may have been hearing improperly. Say...the vocal is buried and it makes more sense to bring it up 3dB in the mix rather than EQing or MS processing to try and bring it out.

Thanks!
 
Not incredibly common if it's not "simple stems" - Such as an instrumental stem and a vocal stem for instrumental/a'capella versions.

*Request* them? Rarely if ever. Very much a pain to work with, if not seriously time-consuming.

There are three typical reasons for stems:

1) As mentioned, instrumental versions, a'capella versions, etc. Totally valid, perfectly acceptable.

2) A recording is so impressive that the producer or mix engineer are so concerned with how it's going to come out that they send in several stems. That 'concern' is often (A) partially 'CYA' sprinkled with a little desperation, or (B) there's going to be some additional "mixing" (for lack of a better term) going on once they hear preliminary files. Again, a valid reason on some projects, a 'Hail Mary' pass on some others.

3) The engineer just can't commit to a mix. Usually from "less seasoned" engineers or engineers that just can't mix. Those are the really troublesome ones... Those are the nightmares. Those are the ones where the artist/producer/engineer (or whoever is calling the shots) calls up three times a day and says "could you make that one cymbal a little louder at (this point) and maybe make the guitars really huge?" It tends to be a desperate effort to do things that should have been done in the mix - if not during tracking.

And you never know which one it's going to be until you load it all up. Had one come in last week - *seven* stems. 3? Fine. 4? Reasonable. 7?!?

I thought it was going to be a week-long nightmare. Turned out to be one of the better recordings I've worked on all year. 5-1/2 hours in & out. And there were some tweaks - But very well done stuff. Most stem projects don't load in that sort of condition.
 
Thanks.

I got the files in yesterday. They sent me DrumsUP and DrumsDN mixes and the vocal is buried in all of them. What might I try to bring it out? The problem is that anything I might try will also affect the snare, which is a bit out front, and both are panned dead center.

Now, i figured, if I have at least instrument and vocal stems I'd be good. eh...nothings' easy.
 
Why not just ask the ME if he wants stems? If he's not able to get the mixes where you want, that may help him.
 
I assume by "ME" you mean Mastering Engineer and in this case that would be myself. I want the stems, but would hate to go back and ask for them, insulting the guys mix, and dumping a lot of work on him if they did not think to make them in the mixdown sessions.
 
dean1964 said:
I got the files in yesterday. They sent me DrumsUP and DrumsDN mixes and the vocal is buried in all of them. What might I try to bring it out? The problem is that anything I might try will also affect the snare, which is a bit out front, and both are panned dead center.
Click to expand...
You can pull the center out easy enough through M/S decoding.

From there I'd have to look at/listen to what's there to choose the path/method I'd try. If there's a fairly obvious dynamic distinction between the vocal and the snare - if the snare sticks out well above the vocals - then I might try using a multi-level compander like Roger Nichols Digital's Dynamizer to apply a parallel "Motown" compression on the meat of the vocals while leaving the snare transients alone. This tool will also lets you key the companding by a frequency curve, which could help isolate the important parts of the snare from the compression as well.

G.
 
Were I in your position, I would adopt a slightly different stance.

On being presented with material for mastering, I would do the mechanical things (top & tailing, fades, etc), but I would be reluctant to try and emphasize something that I personally believe should have more prominence (such as increasing the vocal levels). My personal views on musicality (which I'm entitled to have) may not accord with those who supplied the material (which they're entitled to have), and I have no right to second-guess the customer.

For one thing, it is (as you note) devaluing the mixer's work (maybe even insulting it), and prima facie, their opinion carries as much weight as yours.

For another thing, what you are seeking to do is to perform an adjustment during a phase of the process which is sub-optimal for doing it. The best solution is a re-mix and a re-submitted product for you to work on.

However, I would always check with the customer: "Did you intend for the vocals to be this low? Would you like to have a listen to see what I mean?" This is a desirable path to follow, because even though you should not impose your musical ideas, you should confirm the intention behind any musical oddities. It's always possible, for example, that they sent you the wrong mix.

I can easily imagine a scenario in which you do a job unquestioningly, return the product and field a barrage of complaints from the customer: "surely you must have heard there was something wrong with the mix we sent you. It's obvious! Why didn't you check with us instead of blindly doing it etc etc".

And I can just as easily imagine a scenario where you take the mix, massage it to your own exquisite taste, only to field a similar barrage: "how dare you take it upon yourself to sit in judgement on our material and alter it? You've ruined it! etc. etc."

This leads me to two rules:

1 Never second-guess the customer. It is dangerous to assume their intentions; and

2 Always confirm the brief, specially if it involves you having to perform major surgery on the tracks.
 
Thank you.

gecko zzed - What an insanely beautiful post.

Glen - Ill give it a try, I'm not sure if we have that specific plug in available, but I'm sure there some kind of similar tool. - A
 
Just a quick update to finish this thread off. I tried M/S processing and it worked like a charm. I have to admit, this is the first time I've tried it and holy-crap-how-cool.

I was sent drumUP and drumDN mixes. From my prior experence with the artist, I can almost hear the mix session conversation in my head of him insisting to the engineer that the drums be up a bit. As a result, I was sent both mixes (the engineer's drumDN, and the artist's drumUP) for mastering.

I took the drumDN mix, used M/S processing to bring up the center (VOX, SNR, KICK mostly) and viola! All three came up, the vocal is much clearer, and the drums should be where he likes them.

- Amazing. but my my how you could over do.

Thanks everyone.
 
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