Short Snappy Snare?

B

Badchi

New member
I've been struggling with this one for awhile now. I like the sound of a nice tight, short,snappy snare. I can achieve this but the problem lies in making it loud. What I mean is after it's been mastered (either professionally or by myself) when the track volume is boosted to commercial level, the attack of the snare gets dulled. The limiter seems to knock off the attack and push the snare back, making it duller and longer. Any tips?

To better describe the sound I'm looking for would be like The Used, Def Tones or Chevelle.
 
You might want to play with some MIC setups or try a few snares,

deftones uses

" 6x14 snare that's 20-ply maple with die-cast rims and four 1" holes drilled into the shell. It's become my main snare now because it's sort of the best of both worlds "

Mic setups vary I always liked the traditional top and bottom gets a good sound and maybe you can adjust the levels of the 2 tracks to get closer to that sound you like.

I also know that deftones used a Piccolo snare at times, also, adjust the tension on your snare and just experiment with it.

Good luck.
Derek
 
Dereck,

Thanks for your response. I definetly like the Deftones drums. As a matter of fact, there's a drum intro at the begining of Digital Bath that I use for a drum reference for most my rock mixes.

The problem isn't getting the sound, it's keeping the sound after being mastered. The kick is ok but the snare falls apart.
 
You could lower your levels to increase dynamics and also reduce any buss compression. This would let the snare come through more. That way, unless they have a multiband right on the snare frequency during mastering, it would open things up a bit.
 
Of the bands you mentioned I know two of them use samples, triggers and/or sound replacement on their drums.

The Used is a prime example. Great drum sounds, but you're not going to get it unless you trigger.
 
Thanks for your responses. I think I've got it all sorted out now. Please give me your opinions on this approach though.

Like I said, I was happy with the sounds I was getting BEFORE any loudness maximizing. Incidently, I was allready using drum replacement. So this is what I did. I strapped a limiter on the master buss and brought my mix up to commercial level. Naturally, things fell apart, especially the kick and snare. I then adusted some track levels and adjusted the kick and snare compressors for more smack until I was happy with the result. I then took the limiter off the master buss and naturally it sounded like ass. But with it on, I'm finally happy!

Has anyone tried this? Does it make sense or is it stupid?
 
Deftones drums do sound too good to be just a recording. Could be samples or a really really perfect drummer. I boost the sanre and kik more a little more than sounds right. This way when you limit at mastering you are keeping more of the wave. add loads of hig mids to the snare and kik drum and take out some lo mids on the kik drum and maybe on the snare. High pass filter the kik drum at around 60 or 80ish s it still keeps its lo meatyness but doesnt over power or muffle the lo end. When mastering boost the high end and boost the lo end. Keep the lo end of the mix to a minimum so you can boost it at mastering. maybe use a multi band for the bass and no compression on the hi end probably. watch out for the 5k eq especially and the mids.
 
Sounds like a good idea. Theres a fine line between genius and insanity though. Must give it a try. Would need to have a decent set of limiters on the stereo master output though.
 
ecktronic said:
Sounds like a good idea. Theres a fine line between genius and insanity though. Must give it a try. Would need to have a decent set of limiters on the stereo master output though.
Click to expand...

Well, I've heard of guys mixing into a compressor on the master buss and having good luck with it. Much less compression on individual tracks and the ability to get the mix sounding good, quicker. Just wondering if anyone has tried the same approach but using a limiter. It's worth a try. At least it saved this mix.

If the Deftones are using triggers, anyone know what samples they're using?
 
A lot of producers are making their own samples by recording the drummer hitting individual drums and then processing the samplings, and having those triggered, sound replaced or drumagog'd.
 
That's just it man, it's that final EQing that's screwing you up.



Snare's live in the midrange of the spectrum, so if you're doing the very inadvisable "V thing" on your EQ, then expect your snare to sound like pure ass.


The best thing you could do is to get the mix sounding the best it can, so that way you only need marginal changes during mastering. Not enough that it'll completely screw up your snare sound, among other things.



But also one last thing to consider. Recording is about getting it the best right from the source. So it's also gonna depend greatly on how you tune your snare, what kind of snare it is, what kind of heads it has and how you mic it.


Thin snares are horrible to work with, because they have hardly any body whatsoever. So most of the time I end up having to sound replace them.


Snares roughly 5inches thick, 13 inches in diameter or more will be easier to work with.

So here's personal knowledge to help you out:

Brass snares: Brighter and snappy sound
Thin ply wood snares: Slightly duller sound with better sustain
Thick ply wood snares: Dull/warm sound with fast decay with more crack/snap
 
Maybe the problems don't lie in your snare, but what's fighting with it when mastering. Or maybe the mastering is the problem. If you are using ONLY a brickwall limiter to compress, this could be the cause of losing all the attack. Set a slower attack time on a compressor (not an brickwall or look-ahead), and maybe you'll have better luck.

Hard to evaluate without audio samples.
 
mixandmaster said:
If you are using ONLY a brickwall limiter to compress, this could be the cause of losing all the attack. Set a slower attack time on a compressor (not an brickwall or look-ahead), and maybe you'll have better luck.

.
Click to expand...
I agree! I don't feel the mastering engineer did a good job setting up the compressor (Hey, he was cheap) That's when I started playing around with it myself and I'm no mastering engineer. I think more smack out of the compressor to compensate for the brickwall dulling it would have done the trick :D .

Thanks for your responses
 
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