mixer question

A

ad0lescnts

New member
I've been looking at some boards and i notice that some of them have direct outs on each channel and some don't. For a multi tracking situation you would need the direct outs on each channel to go into the recorder, right? Does that mean that the boards without the direct outs are just for live, or what?

thanks in advance,
T
 
Lot of cheaper mixers seem to just have a left and right outs for sending to dats or whatever your choice is. More expensive consoles have direct outs and in's on all channels. Intersting though that my little POS Alesis studio 24 has direct outs/in's on all channels. I'm not exactly sure how guys are recording with mixers without the direct outs, my guess is they just group all the channels they are using to their left and right outputs. Only thing that confuses me on doing it that way is how are they monitoring all their different channels being recorded?
 
There's two common methods of getting a sound that is sent through a mixer to the input of the tape/HD. Direct outs and Buss outs. Direct outs would be used if you wish to take a single signal (like a bass or vocal) and send it to a single track on the recorder. These are extremely handy if you have 4 or fewer busses. It also keeps the signal from going through another layer of amplification by going through the busses. Buss outs can also be used for recording a single instrument or vocalist onto a track. Or, you could use a buss out to assign multiple sources to one or more tracks. Buss outs are sometimes called Group outs on less expensive mixers and generally a mixer will have 4 or 8 buss or group outs. (If you are recording to a HD you would have to have break out box with 8 analog inputs and 8 analog outputs.)
For example, let's say I have an 8 track recording system and a 24 input mixer with direct outs and 4 busses. Here's an example of the inputs/outputs for recording a full band that I COULD use. This layout is not cast in stone. We will record the drums and keyboards in stereo.

Mixer
Input Instrument (Buss/Direct) Track #/Pan
------- --------------- --------------- ----------------
1 Kick (Buss 1&2) 1&2/12:00
2 Snare (Buss 1&2) 1&2/12:00
3 Top Tom (Buss 1&2) 1&2/2:00
4 Floor Tom (Buss 1&2) 1&2/9:00
5 OH L (Buss 1) 1
6 OH R (Buss 2) 2
7 Bass (Direct) 3
8 Rythm Guitar (Direct) 4
9 Lead Gtr (Buss 3) 5
10 Vocal (Direct) 6
11 Keyboard L (Direct) 7
12 Keyboard R (Direct) 8

Usually, on mixers that have buss outs there is a way to allow you to pan the signal (on the input channel) between two Busses if you assign one input to more than one buss. That's what the time to the side of the drums is. That means that for the Kick & Snare equal signal would be going to both tracks 1 & 2. For the floor tom most of the signal would be going to track 1 and less to track 2. OH L would be all going to Track 1 whereas OH R would be all going to Track 2. Direct outs aren't panned beacuse it is one source channel being recorded onto one track of the multitrack.
Using this method you would have to premix your drums because once on tape they will be on 2 track and there will be no way to rebalance the individual drums.
As far as monitoring, you would bring the ouputs of the tape/Sound Card back into the extra inputs on the mixer, 13-20. Assign THOSE return inputs to the L/R Buss and pan them as below. Again, the panning is not cast in stone. You may want to use a different method.

Mixer
Input Instrument Pan
------ --------------- ------
13 Drum L Full Left
14 Drum R Full Right
15 Bass 12:00
16 Rythm Guitar 10:00
17 Lead Guitar 12:00
18 Vocal 12:00
19 Keys L Full Left
20 Keys R Full Right

Now you've still got 4 inputs (plus your normal effects returns) to bring back reverb, Delay, and other effects. Of course, if you had an 8 buss console you wouldn't have to use the direct outs except to record through fewer gain stages. Big consoles (Neve, MCI, Trident, SSL, etc.) will generally have 16, 24, or 32 buss outs along with Direct outs on each input channel. It would be tough to record a full band all at once through a board that doesn't have direct and buss outs. If it didn't have direct outs you would be limited to 4 tracks at a time in our example above.

Does this help?
 
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If there are no direct outs on the console and you have four or fewer busses, an insert can be used to send signal to the recorder.

This eats up your insert jack but is the only way to get eight signals to eight tracks on a four-buss board if you have to record a whole band at once or maybe a jazz group.

For consoles without tape returns, unused channels are used as tape returns for monitoring and mixing. This is know as a split console design and is how the smaller Mackies are set up.
You have to have as many unused channels as you have outs to the recorder.

Most dedicated recording consoles have direct outs as well as buss outs and tape returns. This is usually an in-line design. A switch is used to change the channel strip to monitor playback and mixing after tracking is done.
 
I have a 16 channel mixer that has only two outs, two aux sends, and two returns. A very limited board.

Since I only record one instrument at a time, the only instance I would use the console for tracking is when I am working with two mics on one instrument (otherwise, I just record with a separate mic pre). When using the mixer, I have the signal sent to the recorder via the aux send. This allows me to have the tracking device's output fed into separate channels of the mixer without affecting the recorded signal. The mixer then acts like a very large headphone amp.

Cy
 
There's another element that's often over looked also - tape returns. This is because many mixer manufacturer's expect you to either burn channel inputs, or direct inputs, for the returns from your tape/computer/ADAT/whatever.

I bought my Alesis Studio 32 because not only is it a good "value" mixer, but it's 16 channels each have mic in / line in / tape return /direct in / direct out. It was deisgned to be used with two ADAT decks. So my first 8 input channels also double as my "tape" returns (actually an 8in/8out sound card). You just flip a switch right on the channel, no re-patching necessary. This is a BIG plus as far as I was concerned.

When I went mixer shopping, I picked the Alesis over the 16 channel Mackie mainly for this reason - it's like getting a 32 channel mixer for the price of a 16. No complaints about the mixer's other features either, I've been happy with it.
 
RWhite said:


When I went mixer shopping, I picked the Alesis over the 16 channel Mackie mainly for this reason - it's like getting a 32 channel mixer for the price of a 16. No complaints about the mixer's other features either, I've been happy with it.
Click to expand...

RWhite,

Same here!

I was looking at the Mackies and for the life of me I couldn't understand them. I didn't know much at all about recording (not saying I know anything yet either) but I did figure out enough to know that what I wanted was an inline mixer. I have no regrets my 24 has served me well. If I can save enough quarters I want to get a Ghost
and those babies have all the I/O you need. Not to mention hot preamps and EQ. But for now I'm happy I went with the 24 and not having to deal with re-patching!
 
so if i get a mackie 1202 i need to use the inserts to get out to a delta 44 card?
i could record 4 seperate tracks though couldn't i?
 
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