Do you ever gate the Toms at the mixing stage?

A

alanfc2

New member
hey - I have a great drummer and want his toms action, but when I crank the two toms tracks (1 mic for upper, 1 mic for floor), I get alotta snare. And this snare is diffused left and right along with my toms panning.

I was thinking of trying a gate on the toms only to get the real toms action only. Plus I think it could help the focus of my snare come back if I could set it properly to hide the snare and only bring out the toms. Then the real centered snare tracks (upper&lower mics) would come through more directly . What do you think?
thanks
 
When i track metal, rock or a cymbal bashing drummer i use the tom gates.

Allthough i gate them on the way in.
Not during the mix process.

I use acoustic triggers on the shell of the drum. Then to the sidechain of a gate.
 
I don't personally use gates on my toms, but if you're having problems it can't hurt to try. I would pick up a mic for each tom. This would help alleviate some of your problems, if you work with the polar patterns of each.
 
YOu can use gates, personally I don't like to either. Next time you record, use mic position to lessen snare sounds, you're always going to get some, and sometimes a lot, but mic poisition will help you a lot if you pay attenention to that detail up front...
 
I dont like gates much but i do use one for the floor tom as the ride cymbal gets picked up quite a bit by the floor tom mic.
 
I don't use gates. I silence/delete the tom mics except when the toms are playing. Gates can mis-trigger and occassionally chop off the front end of the hit. Of course if you set them well that isn't a problem.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
I don't use gates. I silence/delete the tom mics except when the toms are playing. Gates can mis-trigger and occassionally chop off the front end of the hit. Of course if you set them well that isn't a problem.
Click to expand...

ditto

It can take awhile, depending on the drummer/song but it's worth it. Do you fade the tails of your edits?
 
HangDawg said:
Do you fade the tails of your edits?
Click to expand...

I fade it at the end of the roll, but not for each individual strike.

Although there is bleed from the tom mics, the "excitement" it adds will make the roll seem more dramatic so I have never worried much about it.
 
I gate toms and even snare bottom and some kicks most of the time. As long as you use decent gates and pay a little attention to them than it isn't a problem. I personally don't like to constantly hear the toms "warbling" when they aren't being played. In fact, if you place a mic on each individual tom ( like I do) than a gate is even more important. I don't mind bleed at all, but just not the sound of the shell resonating constantly. I also prefer to gate rather than overdampening like so many people do. The way I see it is NEVER gate to tape (you might miss something) and rarely dampen. Tones can be created and shaped a little during mixdown, but you can't really fix something that was never there (i.e. non triggered gate). By not dampening or gating on the way in you have full flexibility during mixdown in case you change your mind.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
I fade it at the end of the roll, but not for each individual strike.

Although there is bleed from the tom mics, the "excitement" it adds will make the roll seem more dramatic so I have never worried much about it.
Click to expand...


Yep, that's what I meant. I like the extra bleed during fills too.

It's good to see I'm not wasting my time, others are doing this shit too.
 
Oh yeah, you're definitely not alone. I'll chop suey the tom tracks if need be. It starts to become tedious after awhile, but the results are always worth it.

I never gate while tracking; things can go wrong especialy if you have a drummer that uses different dynamics (I'm talking playing intensity here, not mics, you gear sluts :D ). I'm getting set to change my set-up a little, and am planning to give each tom its own track. This might make gating an easier option than all those edits.
 
Cowbell is a must but would you gate it? I say no. I really like the extended ring all the way through to the next strike. :eek:
 
Wow thanks !

indeed, up till I had this bright idea about the gate.. :rolleyes: I had been going in with volume envelopes (Sonar) and goosing the cool parts. On the Tom mic tracks and the overheads. Doesn't sound too unnatural.

I can hear that gated sound in my head right now though ! I kinda like it, its a little creepy just hearing these phantom distant hits from the other sources. I tried this on Kick (and discarded it very quickly), and could tell that there's this magic point where enough bad stuff is cancelled out without warping the good stuff once mixed in completely with the rest of the kit. I just wasn't sure if it was kosher or not. (of course if it sounds good who cares).
thanks for the notes.
 
umm scuse me but our drummer came over to my studio (ok my desk in my bedroom) and laid down some sweeeet cowbell parts for a couple of these songs. I don't think our fans (family) will want to hear much more of it ! I can't wait to mix them in big n loud. He had a little calf-bell on one goofy song we have, and then the big mama cowbell for this other song
 
MadAudio said:
I never gate while tracking; things can go wrong especialy if you have a drummer that uses different dynamics
Click to expand...

Nothing goes wrong if you gate toms the way i do.

1.acoustic trigger taped to the shell of the drum.
2.trigger signal out to sidechain of the gate.
3.tom mic to pre-amp.
4 pre-amp signal to gate in.
5.gate out to interface.

The trigger signal actually reaches the gate about 3 to 5 ms. before the mic signal does so there is never a missed attack, set the release to taste.

Another cool thing about this trick is enables you to use LD condenser mics on the toms.
Which IMHO sounds better than a 57,md421 or dynamic of the like.

Fool proof.
 
You can use a gate to add click to the kik drum if you just cant get any click from eq and compression. Its a cheating way kinda that can sound good in the mix. Not that i would use it though.
 
Out of curiosity, how is that the signal gets from the trigger a whole 3 to 5 ms earlier? My bet is that it actually happens less than 1 ms different which is far below the threshold of gates. Also, how does the triggering allow you to use LD mics any differently than without the triggers?

I love LD mics on toms. Just not with rock. With something a little more jazzier (where the toms typically have a little flatter sound and less off beat shell resonance so i would not use gates) I love LD mics on toms. With straight forward rock when you want that huge chunky tom sound I find that LD mics pick up too much other stuff. The problem to me is not really the bleed, but the fact that to get that HUGE tom sound I often find myself adding a bit of HF stuff like 5 and 10k. I find I can't really do that if I have too much bleed because those high frequencies tend to make the whole drum mix really harsh when the toms open up (the HF boosts affect the cymbals and snare in the tom channels and you hear that harshness poking out when the tom gates open up). Of course this is generally when you are dealing with louder and more forceful drummers. Fact is though that in todays rock'n'roll industry, there are a lot of those out there. Don't get me wrong though. I am a big fan of lightly blending a good triggered sound with Kick and toms for a lot of heavier stuff. Especially in a live setting.
 
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