Death not an option - mix in headphones or a crappy room?

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dzilla77

New member
So, given the two choices above, which is better?

I have no problem dropping some change on a pair of studio monitors, but my mixing space is small and odd shaped and I don't really want to put a lot of sound traps on the walls/corners as it is part of a space I use to entertain.

What say the masses? And are there suggestions to minimize the disadvantages of each?
 
I'd still mix with monitors over phones everytime. You can learn how your room sounds with a pair of monitors and some room treatment can be done.
 
Same. i have a shitty space too. AND i bought a set of headphones. AND hated them.

THEN i bought some monitors. headphones cant touch them.

and honestly, i dont think space is too big of a deal most of the time. i mean, if you are getting paid to produce super high quality mixes then yeah treat that hoe. but my room is seriously the room i sleep in. and my music comes out pretty well. (meaning the average music listener isnt going to notice something wrong.)

monitors.
 
I recently started mixing with some Audio Technica ATH 50 headphones. I find them to be a great starting reference. I still do comparisons on a number of other systems, car stereos, boom boxes, etc. to see if the mixes translate well. Doing A/B comparisons with known reference mixes is helpful as well.
 
I do this weird thing where I EQ in my headphones, then mix the tracks together through my crappy monitors in my crappy room for proper volume/placement purposes. And, it may or may not be heavily frowned upon but, it has worked for me great.

On a sidenote, I think Im finally going to invest in some new Krk monitors, that are designed with the bass trap on front and with other things to make them perfect for home recordists that suffer in crappy rooms.
 
I use both.

I normally do some levelling and panning on the monitors initially, then I'll finetweak with headphones.

I'll then EQ with the headphones and finetweak with monitors and do a few car tests etc after finishing.
 
I mix using monitors, but always check my mixes with headphones, and sometimes I even play them in the car, but mixing with headphones only would mean you would have to know exactly how the headphones were "lying" to you.
In otherwords, how flat, or not, are they, and unfortunately, untill you've really gotten to know them, or you've compared them to good monitors a lot, it's extremely difficult to know that.

As for the crappy room, hang curtains, or towels, anything soft, and absorbing, and get yourself some nice monitors that can truly become "reference".
Here's a good read; All About Home and Project Studio Monitors.

Good luck.
 
Use the cans!!

Nah just kidding. I'd definitely use the studio monitors, even if they're in a crappy room. I guess my advice would to be just learn how your room sounds and work with it.
 
Yeah....agree with "guitaristic"
put some of ur favourite cd and listen to how it sounds thru ur monitor in ur "crappy" room......get used to it
and, u can know how ur mix should be sound like
 
The same argument can be made for headphones. If you decide to use them, you have to know how your mix is going to come out and make the changes accordingly, i.e. you have to get a mix thru the phones, then listen to the mix on normal system, like your home system or your car, etc... then you know that the mix you have in your headphones will sound the way it does though other systems and you can adjust as needed... Once you're used to it, you'll know pretty well where the adjustments need to be made.

That being said, monitors usually give you a better reference. But if you're like me, you do most of your mixing when everyone else is home and sleeping, and that just not a good time to be listening to your mix through the desktops... at least that's according to my wife... so headphone are a necessity...
 
Thanks for all the different perspectives. I think I am going to put monitors on my wish list, and in the meantime use a combination of cans, crappy computer speakers, and checking on various systems until I get them. Then I will switch out the crappy computer speakers for the monitors (and use them more than the cans).
 
2 questions:

And I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, so nobody get your back up and get all defensive.....

1) When people say "I do so and so.....and it works fine for me" or "I do so and so....and my mixes turn out fine". What are they basing that on? Their own opinion? Their friends and family? What makes them so sure their mixes "turn out fine"? Just curious, because I often read people saying their mixes are just fine, and then I hear their music, and I wonder how the hell they come to that conclusion.

2) Why do people spend so much on equipment, but still mix in a "shitty room"? Why do people think room treatment is so expensive? Most people won't spend a penny on room treatment, but will ask which <insert shiny new piece of equipment here> will make them "sound pro". Why?

Just wondering.....:)
 
RAMI said:
2 questions:

And I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, so nobody get your back up and get all defensive.....

1) When people say "I do so and so.....and it works fine for me" or "I do so and so....and my mixes turn out fine". What are they basing that on? Their own opinion? Their friends and family? What makes them so sure their mixes "turn out fine"? Just curious, because I often read people saying their mixes are just fine, and then I hear their music, and I wonder how the hell they come to that conclusion.

2) Why do people spend so much on equipment, but still mix in a "shitty room"? Why do people think room treatment is so expensive? Most people won't spend a penny on room treatment, but will ask which <insert shiny new piece of equipment here> will make them "sound pro". Why?

Just wondering.....:)
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I saw this and had recently been thinking about it and thought I'd admit that I fall into the category of people you describe above.

I've never treated a room and have no plans of doing so. Frankly, it just doesn't seem necessary to me as I don't seem to have a problem with mixes translating accurately to other environments (I have plenty of other problems, but that really doesn't seem to be one of them).

Secondly, the whole process of figuring out room treatment seems pretty boring (the physics of sound and all that). I've tried reading some threads in the studio building forum, but I just can't get into that stuff.

Thirdly, I don't have a dedicated room for this hobby and so I track, mix and whatnot in our den which is also our guestroom and serves various other purposes for the family. There is just no way I'm going to have foam and stuff all over the place.

Not saying hobbyists shouldn't treat rooms or anything - just offering one explanation of why room treatment is not much of a consideration for some.
 
heatmiser said:
I saw this and had recently been thinking about it and thought I'd admit that I fall into the category of people you describe above.

I've never treated a room and have no plans of doing so. Frankly, it just doesn't seem necessary to me as I don't seem to have a problem with mixes translating accurately to other environments (I have plenty of other problems, but that really doesn't seem to be one of them).

Secondly, the whole process of figuring out room treatment seems pretty boring (the physics of sound and all that). I've tried reading some threads in the studio building forum, but I just can't get into that stuff.

Thirdly, I don't have a dedicated room for this hobby and so I track, mix and whatnot in our den which is also our guestroom and serves various other purposes for the family. There is just no way I'm going to have foam and stuff all over the place.

Not saying hobbyists shouldn't treat rooms or anything - just offering one explanation of why room treatment is not much of a consideration for some.
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Well, while I think your mixes are generally OK, maybe you're an exception. At the same time, who knows how much better your mixes would be if you could actually properly hear what your monitors are trying to tell you.

As far as room treatment involving complicated physics and foam all over the place, nothing could be further from the truth. Foam shouldn't even enter the conversation when it comes to room treatment because foam is useless. As far as "complicated" is concerned, 4 corner traps and maybe a cloud over your listening area would make a HUGE improvement in anyone's room. It's not complicated at all, and not only does it not need to be "all over the place", it actually takes up very little room at all.

Hey, whatever works for people is cool with me. But, like I said, I've heard many mixes from people who claim they have no problem with their set up, and all I can say is that I beg to differ big time.
 
Fair enough and again I'm not trying to argue the point. Just explaining why I, and I suspect others, find room treatment to be sort of mysterious and maybe overemphasized when someone is starting out at least.
 
heatmiser said:
Fair enough and again I'm not trying to argue the point. Just explaining why I, and I suspect others, find room treatment to be sort of mysterious and maybe overemphasized when someone is starting out at least.
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No, it's all good. No argument going on here.

Of course room treatment seems mysterious at first, possibly mainly because most beginners just can't head their head around why something they don't understand will make their mixes sound better, while a nice new shiny piece of hardware or a mega-super-duper plug-in MUST be the one thing that's keeping them from "sounding pro". But, it's actually a simple thing...just not glamorous and exciting.
 
RAMI said:
No, it's all good. No argument going on here.

Of course room treatment seems mysterious at first, possibly mainly because most beginners just can't head their head around why something they don't understand will make their mixes sound better, while a nice new shiny piece of hardware or a mega-super-duper plug-in MUST be the one thing that's keeping them from "sounding pro". But, it's actually a simple thing...just not glamorous and exciting.
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Yes, it does fail the glamour test. It seems like you need at least a certain amount of knowledge and resources to treat a room properly...Isn't it possible to do more harm than good if you treat a room incorrectly?

For the benefit of the OP, If he's using cans and/or computer speakers now, don't you think some proper speakers/monitors would be a big improvement regardless of treatment? Once they have some speakers in place, they can see if further refinement is needed..?

You've got me curious though...might corner traps provide more low end detail and/or clarity? I mean, as oppposed to couches and bookshelves and stuff...
 
You're likely to get false bass with some headphones. keep your tracks so you can remix later.
 
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