Cymbal hiss & guitar crunch

[Spoogy]

Hey crew!! I posted a little while back asking for some help with bass frequencies, and you all were a great help. Now I'm mixing my band's new cd with an engineer, and the tracks are almost there. ALMOST!! Our next session is this Saturday at 1pm, so if anyone has any advice, please feel free to email me at james@lostidentity.com.

Ok, here's the deal. We need more cymbal hit, and less cymbal hiss. The cymbals are a little washed out. We do have some compression on them, do we need a little more? Is there a frequency change between cymbal hit and cymbal hiss?

Second, we need to bring guitars out a little more. Volume wise they are awesome, and we cut all of the subfrequencies, like 100hz and below, but I'm looking for that midrage crunch without making the guitars mud. Just a little more presence. Maybe some mid-hi boosts? I'm going for the Machine Head type sound.

Third, we need to make our vocal bigger. Volumewise it's good, and our vocalist is rapping over heavy guitars in both English and Spanish. Kind of like, his voice is a ping pongball right now, and we need to turn it into a big fat softball. the vocals are sitting awesome in the mix, they just need a little more space.

ok thats it.....if anyone has any questions, please hit me up. If someone could steer me in the general area, that would be appreciated!!!! GRACIAS!!

 

[wjgypsy]

try moving the overhead mics a little closer to the cymbals. not directly on top but of to the eage a little bit, about a foot or higher from them.

on the guitar, uping the mid freq and the hi freq will give you a nice cruch. that's the way i did my guitars on my first album. i did not even have to use a peadle. (but the style was 50's rock so they did'nt have them back then anyway!) but for more better guitar sounds, it would b better for you to use a guitar peadle.

good luck.


zeke

 

[chessrock]

We need more cymbal hit, and less cymbal hiss. The cymbals are a little washed out. We do have some compression on them, do we need a little more? Is there a frequency change between cymbal hit and cymbal hiss?

Actually, I think compression will likely worsen the problem. This is really more of a tracking issue than anything. It could be a problem with the cymbal, the mic position, or both. Play with the positioning of the mic first. Secondly, try putting a small piece of electric tape under the cymbal if it's just a matter of lessening it's decay time. Trust me, it works.

Second, we need to bring guitars out a little more. Volume wise they are awesome, and we cut all of the subfrequencies, like 100hz and below, but I'm looking for that midrage crunch without making the guitars mud. Just a little more presence. Maybe some mid-hi boosts?

You got the idea. Play around a little bit with the EQ. It's different for every guitar tone, but usually the crunch and presence are around 2.5k.

Third, we need to make our vocal bigger. Volumewise it's good, and our vocalist is rapping over heavy guitars in both English and Spanish. Kind of like, his voice is a ping pongball right now, and we need to turn it into a big fat softball. the vocals are sitting awesome in the mix, they just need a little more space.

Ahhh. That's the age-old question, there. People usually either have a "big voice" or a small one, and it's hard to make a smaller voice sound big. It's mostly in the performance, but there are some tricks:

Mic selection can help (Large Diaphragm mics can sound a little bigger), compression can certainly help a lot. Effectwise, a very short slap-back style delay can fatten it up a bit. Just be sure to cut a lot of the highs (1K on up) out of the delayed vocal. That's very important. Otherwise it will sound like a cheap, junky room delay.

The only other option would be to double his voice. Do another track of him singing the exact same thing the exact same way. Mix the two takes together, and do a pan spread to about the 10 and 2 position or tighter. If it's a bit much, then turn one of the takes down low enough as to be barely audible (but still there for support).

 

[Spoogy]

AWESOME!! I can see putting tape n the cymbals next time. The drums tracks are all finished for 11 songs - so - is there a frequency i can cut and one i can boost to help the cymbals out? Our drummer does hit hard and often on those brass discs.

THANKS YALL!!!

I'll post MP3's this weekend for you all to hear

 

[chessrock]

is there a frequency i can cut and one i can boost to help the cymbals out? Our drummer does hit hard and often on those brass discs.

Probably not, but it's worth experimenting untill it at least sounds more listenable.

The only thing I can think of would be a multi-band compressor (set to a high-shelf / low-pass from 3.5k on up. Or if it has a de-esser setting, then use that) with a very slow attack time and a long release time. The slow attack time will allow the initial hit (or transient) to come through before it kicks in and brings the rest of it down, so you're left with more of the initial hit and less of the ringing/resonating.

If this is your problem, then you're going to love what a simple piece of black electric tape under the cymbal will do for your life next time around. And it's easy to slip on without the drummer noticing, if he's the type to get bent out of shape over that sort of ting.

 

[BrettB]

I usually use a 2 shelves on cymbal overheads: the lowest frequencies cymballs produce aren't that usable and easily muddy things up while the high frequencies give that extra sparkle. I don't tend to use much compression on overheads: the enveloppe of cymbal that's being hit sin't easily controlable, so it's sounds unnatural quit quickly.

But with drums it's like with all the rest: The Source has to be ok!! Seriously, Getting good cymbals in the first place and polishing them regulary can make a world of difference.

Just like the entire drum kit, remember: A GOOD ADJUSTED DRUM KIT DOESN'T NEED ANY TAPING OR WHATEVER!!! I hate it when people start to tape stuff on their toms to 'disable' certain bad frequencies: When you're drumset is tuned proberly and adjusted by a proffesional your toms will sound like they have to sound. Or like a sound technician/drummer once said to me: You don't put tape on a piano neither, so why put it on a drumset.