combo portable console and souncard

B

Brian Ferrell

New member
Wouldn't it be great if someone made available a combo portable multi-tracker and pc/audio interface that would make it unnecessary to have a soundcard? Budget-wise, I find it difficult to reconcile spending $500+ for a high quality soundcard when I won't even be able to record a drummer in the house with it (space and noise issue). To record a drummer, I have to hump my equipment across our big yard out to the ol' chicken coop. Carting my pc out there is not an option. Anybody know of such a product? If they can make Tascam's US-428, they can add a DAW to it. Except, maybe use an SCSI connection instead of USB.

Brian
 
That would be a neat rig indeed.
Something like this is probably right around the corner.

First, consider that firewire drives are available now.

Suppose an Echo, or Hoonteh, or Aardvark made a Firewire version of their hard disk recording system.

Now all we have to do is haul the external box, and firewire drive over to the drum kit. Plug the drive into the box and set it to record. Audio data is streamed over firewire from the box to the hard disk. We go back to our DAW, hook up the drive, and copy the data we recorded back to our big DAW.

Likewise, we hook up our external box to a firewire card and use it as we use the current crop of sound cards.

Alternatively they could embed a 10 Gig drive in the external box itself for a complete unit.
 
Trash-can man:

Pardon my ignorance, but I was wondering about the fire wire drives. The latest Musicians "Friend" catalog has a big studio package for sale that includes the digi001 and a fire wire drive. I noticed that there is not a computor in the package. Are they saying that you can go straight from the digi001 to the drive? Or are they just assuming that the buyer has a computoer for recording? Maybe both assumptions?
 
Markert, I saw that package and wondered the same thing, so I researched it on Musician's Friend's site and found that the system is designed to be integrated with a Mac for 24 track recording. Why didn't they just say so in their catalog? Anybody know of a console multitracker that has an output for each track? That way I could at least record the drums in the coop using, say, six tracks, and then, using a good sound card with 8 inputs, record the console to PC. Right? I know that I could use any ol' console with stereo outs, but I'd rather mix all the drum tracks on PC. Is it possible to transfer two of the six aforementioned drum tracks at a time to PC thru the stereo outs of the console and then the next two and so on until all six are recorded to PC? Would there be much of a problem re-synching these tracks?

Brian

[Edited by Brian Ferrell on 02-04-2001 at 00:55]
 
I am quite certain than you can't go direct from the Digi-001 to the drive itself. A quick look into the the Digi-001 (specs shown below) does not mention a firewire interface. I would think if it had one, it would be splashed across every ad. I don't think a device that I described above exists yet.

I think the package is 'kitted' like that so:
1. you have a drive fast enough to do recording.
2. the advantage of maybe taking the drive elsewhere - your friend house, a studio etc.

Digi 001 specs
Analog Inputs:

2 ch. mic/line inputs (XLR or 1/4") bal/unbal w/-26dB pad, 48V, gain control, high-pass filter@ 75Hz
6 ch. line inputs (1/4" TRS) bal/unbal w/ software controlled gain
44.1kHz/48kHz sample rates
Dynamic Range: 98dB (input Ref. = +16dBV for ch. 1-2, +4dBV for ch. 3-8)
THD + N: 0.003% (relative to 1kHz @ -0.5dB, 20Hz - 22kHz)
Frequency Response: +/- 0.5dB (relative to 1kHz, 20Hz - 22kHz)
Input Impedance: Ch. 1-2: 3.1 kOhm pad out (mic/line) Ch. 3-8: 20 kOhm
Headroom: 14dB
Analog Outputs:


Main Output: ch. 1-2, +4dBu, balanced (1/4" TRS) outputs
Monitor Output: ch. 1-2, balanced (1/4" TRS) outputs w/ gain control
Line Outputs: ch. 3-8, -10dBV unbalanced
44.1kHz/48kHz sample rates
Dynamic Range: 98dB (DAC Output Ref. = 0dBFS)
THD + N: 0.003% (relative to 1kHz @ -0.5dB, 20Hz - 22kHz)
Frequency Response: +/- 0.5dB (relative to 1kHz, 20Hz - 22kHz)
Output Impedance: Ch. 1-8: 20 Ohm
Monitor Outputs: 50 Ohm
Headroom: 14dB
Headphone Output:


Stereo with 1/4" TRS connector with gain control
Maximum output level: + 17dBV @ 600 Ohm
Digital I/O:


2 ch. S/PDIF (24-bit), 44.1kHz/48kHz
8 ch. ADAT Optical* (24-bit), 44.1kHz/48kHz
 
Jeez - I spoke too soon check out -MOTU828 - that is slick, gotta get one. $795
I don't know if you can go direct to a firewire drive though - but the hardware is there to do so.


http://www.motu.com

"The 828 is an affordable, FireWire™-based digital audio hard disk recording system for Mac OS and Windows. If you have a G4 Cube, or FireWire iMac, add an 828 for a virtually silent (fanless) recording system.
The 828 is also the perfect companion for your laptop computer. With built in phantom-powered mic pre-amps and no-latency monitoring, you don't need a mixer for portable recording.
Included with the 828 is the acclaimed AudioDesk workstation software for Macintosh. Of course, the 828 ships with ASIO drivers for compatibility with your favorite software. "
 
So I checked with MOTU and, as I suspected, the 828 cannot go straight to a firewire drive.

In fact, MOTU went so far as to discourage the use of Firewire drives for recording, although they did not give a reason why. My bet is the current crop is not fast enough to handle the data throughput generated by 8 channel 24/96 audio. (Note that nowhere have I seen that the 828 is 96 KHz. This is just an assumption.)
 
Just a silly thought, but had you ever considered just buying a laptop? There is 4 channel PC card hardware out there, and higher-end laptops are coming equiped with 12 gig hard drives. It all depends on your budget - a decent laptop is about $1500-2500 these days. But you can pick them up much cheaper used.

I do stereo 16 bit recording/sampling all the time on my old Compaq P133 laptop. You would need more power to do 4 tracks of 24 bit of course. Just a thought.....
 
In fact, that is what MOTU is promoting with the MOTU-828. Get a laptop with firewire - any of the Sony VAIO laptops have this for digital video - and voila, portable recording.

BTW I checked with them on the 828 - max sample rate is 48 KHz (I was kind of hoping for 96 :( . Schedule ship date is mid March.
 
RWhite, I don't know whether you intended your question for me or Trashcan-Man, but since I'm the one who started this thread, I better answer or be thought of as rude. Actually, I wanted to do away with the necessity of buying a soundcard by having the needed pc connectivity integrated into the portable recording console. Yes, I've thought of getting a laptop, but then---- won't I still have to get not just one, but two soundcards---- one for the laptop and one for the PC? Trashcan-Man, I think I see your point: the MOTU 828 would serve as a shared sound connection for both laptop and PC, although a firewire card would still have to be installed in the PC. Still, this would be pretty expensive; probably $1500+, and I was thinking something more cost effective..... say, $800-$1000, but I guess it would also depend on how cheap I'd be able to get that used laptop that RWhite suggested. I just thought of something. Maybe the technology I'm suggesting already does exist. Tascam's 788 8-track console has an SCSI port that you can back-up data to external hard drives to. Wouldn't that and an SCSI card in the PC be all that's necessary? But then, again, you probably wouldn't be able to record direct to PC using the 788 as mixer/soundcard, or would you?

Brian

[Edited by Brian Ferrell on 02-06-2001 at 15:45]
 
What I am saying is to forget the desktop PC. If you only need to record up to 4 audio tracks at one time there is laptop hardware right now that does that. Its a PC card you plug into the laptop's PCMCIA slots. Wish I could remember who made it. If your laptop has a 12 gig drive you may not need that firewire drive. And as for SCSI, its a lot cheaper to buy a 100mb PC network card. Then if you still want a desktop PC, you can plug your laptop network card into your desktop (or better yet buy a small hub) and dump your audio files there.

It all depends on what level of quality you are looking for - if you want to record 8+ tracks at once or store large numbers of tracks a desktop PC will still be what you want. You have to balance your need for portability with your need for power....
 
Yeah, I'm starting to see your point, but the 4 channel laptop card you are talking about me buying is STILL a soundcard, right? :-) I know I could dump two tracks at a time from multitracker-to-PC via a soundcard. You are saying, why not do all my recording on the laptop. That way I could dump more tracks at a time onto the PC. Do I really need to do that, though? I do envision building a lot of tracks, so I want to use the PC in the end anyway. I never thought of the network card or hub idea, though- that's something to think about. You've also put a thought into my head that I don't ever actually have to use the PC for live recording. Whether I use a laptop or console, I could use either for all my live recording and dump the data onto the PC to combine as many tracks as I want. That's something I hadn't thought of. Thanks for expanding my mind, man.
 
No Problem. I just wish I could remember who made that PC card hardware. As I recall it was a standard PCMCIA card that you plugged in, then you plugged it into a cable/break box which had 4 ins and 4 outs. Thought it might have been a Motu product but I just looked there and could not find it. Anyone out there know what I am talking about?

Roland and a few others have units that plug into the USB port, but I don't know how many tracks they handle.

The only recording I have done with my old laptop is sampleing a few outdoor noises. I have a battery powered mixer, I plug a mic into that, then run it into a stereo line-in 1/8" on the laptop. Unfortunately the mixer is quite noisey (just old & cheap) but the potential is there, and I never see myself doing enough of this to want to spend money on a portable DAT recorder.
 
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