Urgent: Tascam MS-16 / MSR-16 / ATR-60 ?

G

gilwe

New member
Urgent: Tascam ATR-60 / MS-16 / MSR-16 ?
Finally I came across two machines for sale in a reasonable price.

The first is a Tascam MSR-16 (16 track, 1/2", 15 ips) which is in a fairly good condition (but well used). I can get it along with a few 1/2" reels , a patchbay and all dedicated cables plus a MTC syncronizer for about 400$ .

The second, which looks like a GREAT bargain, is, listen -
Tascam ATR-60 (16 track, 1", 15/30ips) which is well maintained, and has a new head, plus a spare head, for 500$ ! (no tapes)

The choice seems much clear to me, ATR-60.

But, can you think of anything I should know before buying any of them, or does the ATR have any disadvantages that makes the MSR-16 preferable ?

And how about the Tascam MS-16 ?

(ASAP)

Thanks !!



http://www.geocities.co.jp/MusicStar-Guitar/1015/mtr_img/006_tascam_msr16s.jpg

http://www.fam.org.pt/web/paulomiranda/ampstudio/images/TascamATR60-16B.jpg
 
Well, tape cost is a disadvantage. 1" is more expensive that 1/2".

But a pro 16 track 1" for $500 with new heads? It's cheap enough to be suspiscious. That's rather what the ATR-60 2-track would go for. :)

Or actually, it may be cheap enough NOT to be suspiscious and just get it anyway. :)
 
gilwe said:
Well, what should I check when looking into it ?
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If you are unfamiliar with analog reel to reel recording equipment, there are a multitude of things to learn about and check on a deck.

On the ATR60-16, you will want to purchase a roll of Quantegy 456 tape and take it to the sellers premises to do a test recording on all 16 channels to see if all 16 channels record and playback a consistent signal.

You will need a source signal to record as well and this can be a test tone generator that can feed a +4db balanced signal. (remember the ATR60-16 has only balanced in and out connections on the back of it! This will be an important factor too, in choosing a mixing console to go with it.

Once you have the tape loaded on the machine you can also check to see if all the transport functions operate normally and properly in regards to pulling tape in REPRO/REC modes and in fast winding and spooling modes.

Look for flat spots on guides that may be worn out and in need of replacement. Same for the pinch roller; check it for signs of excess hardening and oxide contamination which will appear as discolored, non black rubber.

Considering the abnormally cheap prices you are receiving on these machines, it might also be advisable to bring along a technician who does house calls and pay him for his time to do a professional inspection on sight with you as you don't really know all the pitfalls to watch out for and could easily miss many expensive repair problems with untrained eyes.

If the heads have already been replaced on the ATR60-16, this should tell you that this is a very high millage machine as it takes an enormous amount of hours to wear the heads out. This might mean that many other parts are also well worn and ready to go to and might explain why the seller is willing to let it go so cheap because he knows that other parts need replacement that he hasn't gotten to yet.

Budget for maintenance either way and good luck! :)
 
remember the ATR60-16 has only balanced in and out connections on the back of it! This will be an important factor too, in choosing a mixing console to go with it.
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So I guess my Yamaha 1604 live mixing console won't fit it...

It has a balanaced XLR input, a TRS input and a TRS insert for each channel, but does have XLR outputputs for any of the 4 groups and for the main stereo out.

Can it be used for this purpose ?
 
Your Yamaha 1604 is a Public Address mixer and not really suited for recording applications as it lacks adequate sub-mixing routing for over-dubbing and general tracking. It's also a noisy board compared to many TASCAM boards designed more for the dual application of recording and PA work.

It might be best to go with the MSR16 and find a nice TASCAM mixer to go with it and leave that very nice ATR60-16 for me!:p

The MSR16 is only a -10db unbalanced recorder with RCA pin jack connections and the ATR60-16 is only a balanced +4db deck, switchable to +8 db for driving extra long cable lengths, IE more then 200 feet.

I don't know what the outs on your Yamaha are? Check the manual, if you have it for that answer.

Cheers! :)
 
The 1 inch machine sounds supicious.
The 1/2 inch 16 track is not good to me because the recording gaps are to narrow for superior sound.
You might want to look for a 1/2 inch 8 track machine.
1/2 inch tapes are less expensive and really that is all the tracks you will ever need.

The Who's "Tommy" was recorded on an 8 track machine in 1968, although it was on 1 inch tape, 8 tracks was all that was needed.

I'm sure you will agree that this was a successful album.

Most 1/2 inch 8 track machines have -10 line levels so that will work with your current mixer, but your current mixer will give you a headache when overdubbing because you need better routing capabilities for that. You should plan to upgrade to another mixer. Then you might want to look for a machine that has switchable line levels.

For your cable planning be aware that those machines with +4 line level switchable XLR jacks made before 1993 are usually pin 3 hot so you will need to rewire your cables if you by new ones. Today's equipment with +4 jacks and today's cables are pin 2 hot.
 
Thanks,

the idea is to get a 16 track machine. I currently use a 8 track Fostex which is great sounding.

I understand that I'll need a much expensive mixer for the ATR60
(and much more space of course....)
 
reel buzzer said:
The 1/2 inch 16 track is not good to me because the recording gaps are to narrow for superior sound. [/B]
Click to expand...

1/32" track which sounds great. Sure a 1/16" track will sound better and a 1/4-track will sound even better, so if you are anal about analog, only the "ultimate analog" 2" 8-track will do. ;)

But the differences are really not THAT huge, and the day that you think that they are, you can upgrade again. There is no point in getting the best of the best from the start. Then you'll never get anything actually done. :) You'll just spend all your time working to save up money to buy that Neve desk for $350.000. ;)


My upgrading recommendations is:

Whenever you find a limitation in your recording equipment, you need to fix that limitation by upgrading that piece of equpment. When you do, then replacement should be so good that you expect to need to upgrade it last in the recording chain, *but not better*.

Let's take a hypotetical example: Donald has a 4-track. His main problam is that the preamps in the 4-track sound like shit, primarily they are really noisy. What should he do? Well, 1. He should NOT buy new reverb. :) This seems obvious, but in fact there are many persons who here ask "what should I buy to get better sound" without pointing out what they thing their problem is.
OK, so what preamp should Donald buy? If he buys a pro preamp to use with his 4-track porta, he has wasted money and quality, because he can't use the full potential of the newly acquired equipment, and in fact, even an upgrade to a 8-track r2r and a nice Tascam M-216 doesn't enable him to use the full potential of that preamp. Even a RNP is overkill in this case. He can get a preamp for under $100 and that will get him over that hump, so he can start recording again. Then he can save the other $300 he has left from not buying an RNP on buying a reverb and a compressor. :) MUCH better.

So, in this case the tape recorder you get should be better quality than most of the other stuff you have. A 1/2" 16-track will see you well through an upgrade to a nice expensive 24ch mixer. You'll also get more preamps, mics and tons of outboards before you are gonna see that 1/2" as a limitation in sound. And in fact, you may even found that nice 24ch Tascam board is the limit well before the 16-track, you never know...

(Now of course, if you for some reason can get a much better thing than necessary, but for the same amount of money, that's not wasting. ;) )
 
regebro wrote: "1/32" track which sounds great. Sure a 1/16" track will sound better and a 1/4-track will sound even better, so if you are anal about analog, only the "ultimate analog" 2" 8-track will do.

But the differences are really not THAT huge, and the day that you think that they are, you can upgrade again. There is no point in getting the best of the best from the start. Then you'll never get anything actually done."




Excellent! I couldn't have said it better. Thanks regebro.
 
I'm starting to think in the direction of the MSR-16,
as I'll probably WILL need a new mixer for the ATR which I currently have no intention to replace. I actually love the sound of that Yamaha. Also the MSR is not as big as the ATR and it comes with a bunch of (used) 1/2" reels and a Midiizer, patchbay and cables.

What is the starting price for that 16 - 24 track studio mixers which are made for +4d machines ?...

I guess the 1/2" sounds very nice indeed, but why not going for the more pro option when you can ?...

Hard decision.
 
I don't really know anything about that market segment, but here is the little I do know:

Mackie 8-bus can be switched to +4dBu. They seem to go for anything between $800 and $1500.

Maybe somebody knows of something with better price/performance ratio that can take +4db.
 
The Tascam MSR-16 is a fantastic machine, even with the narrower track width. It has the same track width as the Tascam 388 and Fostex R8. It runs at 15 ips with dbx type I.

Advantages are:

- Phase-Locked-Loop servo
- Computer controlled transport, which constantly monitors and adjusts tape tension and speed.
- Gapless punch-in and punch-out
- Spot erase
- Less expensive tape
- Lots of headroom, 28 db

Specs are great:
- 40Hz - 20kHz @ 15 ips
- Signal to Noise 108 dB w/dbx
- Wow & flutter 0.06% @ 15 ips.

Subjectively speaking, the machine sounds great. It's found its way into many pro studios over the years. Its a modern machine with features and technology that made 16 on 1/2" sound as good or better than a lot of older 8 on 1/2" rigs. It was made from 1989 through at least 1996. Original list price $7499.00.

If the one you're looking at is "well used" though be careful. You probably don't want a project on your hands. A lot of parts are still available from Tascam, but it will cost you. If it was well taken care of and the heads are good all you'll need is a new belt, pinch-roller, and maybe reel clampers...hopefully.

By the way $400.00 is a steal for all your getting. I've never seen that good a deal anywhere for one of these and all those extras.

:cool:
 
I bought a new MSR24S (Dolby S) in 1992 and worked almost every day with it until I bought a two inch machine in 1998.

The MSR24 is the same kind of machine as the MSR16.

I still use the machine synced to the 2" every now and then.

It has never let me down, not for a second. It only needed a new head once, which has cost me some $3000.-

The problem with analog machines is that analog is the most expensive way of recording music these days.

For the price of a new 2" head, you can buy a full blown system with Cubase SX or Nuendo.

BTW, my MSR was updated to +4
 
The Mackie 2408 will provide you with the right line levels and routing. Plus the L/R main outs of the board are a hot 28 db which will be good for your mixes.
 
The ATR may not be avaliable.... The guy said someone has gave him some of the money to reserve it.

I think the MSR-16 will be OK, considering it's phisical size (much smaller than the ATR) and all the additional accessories included with it, and it's compatibility with the Yamaha mixer...
 
I still use the machine synced to the 2" every now and then.
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Han, you can tell anything about it sync capabilities ? I can get a tascam dedicated syncronizer with it. not sure which model though...


It's found its way into many pro studios over the years. Its a modern machine with features and technology that made 16 on 1/2" sound as good or better than a lot of older 8 on 1/2" rigs
Click to expand...


Beck, do you think it really sounds as good or better than older 8 track 1/2" machines ?? Is it in the newer technology and electronics ?

Say such a machine is used on everyday basis a few hours a day in a pro studio, how many years can the head take ?

Thanks
 
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