Korg Triton into Digi 002 Rack

C

cayotic

New member
We were able to record with our current setup for the past year. We recently relocated the studio. During this process the firware of the Digi 002 rack was upgraded forcing us to upgrade the ProTools LE (PTLE) software from 6.1 to 6.4cs and XP to SP2.

The triton is setup to midi OUT and the Digi 002 rack us setup to midi IN. I am able to record audio from the keyboard into PTLE using the left and right audio cables. However, we cant get the ProTools to start the keyboard automaticly.


Triton:
Midi Clock- External Midi and Receive Ext. Commands

ProTools:
I should be able to click record on a particular track and click record/play in protools to start playing and record sounds from the triton.


"Any help you can provide is more than anyone else is willing to"

Jailbirdmusic.com
Cayotic.com
 
cayotic said:
The triton is setup to midi OUT and the Digi 002 rack us setup to midi IN. I am able to record audio from the keyboard into PTLE using the left and right audio cables. However, we cant get the ProTools to start the keyboard automaticly.
Click to expand...
Have you tried connecting the midi out of the Digi 002 rack to the midi in of the Triton? It may be just that simple.

Also, don't fail to turn the 'local off' on the Triton if you're going to hook it up bi-directionally. This breaks the connection between the keyboard and the internal sounds and prevents note-retriggering, clock looping and other irritations.

And welcome to the board.
 
I did ensure that the local control was disabled. And, in my original post that was deleted due to page refresh had stated that I have tried every combination of Midi configuration.

I tried rack midi out to keyboard midi in as you suggested and the midi light on the rack is no longer lit up. This tells me I had something right before. But still, in either instance, the software/hardward is not starting the keyboard.

I have to go to work, but I will check back with this forum.

Thanks for your help...
 
The midi light on the rack is no longer lit when you hook it up from the out because the running status bytes are no longer present at the midi in. That means that the midi signal is getting at least as far as the rack, but may or may not be being passed on to the software. If you have two midi cables hook it up bidirectionally. If not, go buy another one.

Do you have the Triton sequencer in external clock mode?

Are you sure PT is capable of putting out a midi clock signal that the Triton understands? It's a rare keyboard/hardware piece that understands Midi Time Code, but that's what manufacturers continue to equip their software with.

I doubt that the upgrades to either your computer or the DigiRack rendered them unusable together - that just wouldn't make sense. It must be something much simpler, like the firewire cable being hooked up wrong or some switch either on the Rack or in the software that got flipped the wrong way, so don't despair yet if the suggestions above don't solve the problem.
 
do you have a cable going from MIDI out of the triton to MIDI in of 002 and then back MIDI out of PT 002 to MIDI in of the Triton at the same time? Your first post makes it sound like you're only using one cable. You need to get MIDI into Pro Tools and then it sends it back out to your Triton triggering your sounds.

also, are you recording MIDI on a MIDI track?? setup the track's input to All and record arm it. then pressing the keys you should see levels on the MIDI track.
 
No, I only had one midi cable and for the past year our old setup worked. As far as importing midi into a midi track; I've done that and it doesn't sound the same. It sounds like MIDI and not music. I tried exporting the midi onto a floppy and importing into PTLE. And again, it sounds like a MIDI file and not the actual music.

This is confusing to me since digi design insists that MIDI isn't music, rather a means of controlling hardware via other hardware. I know midi as audio that I can convert into MMF files to make ringtones. And that's what these midi files sound like when imported or input onto a midi track.

I still need another midi cable to try what has been suggested here. Since the album is complete we are working on promotion and touring down the coast.

I appreciate your advice though.
 
cayotic said:
No, I only had one midi cable and for the past year our old setup worked. As far as importing midi into a midi track; I've done that and it doesn't sound the same. It sounds like MIDI and not music. I tried exporting the midi onto a floppy and importing into PTLE. And again, it sounds like a MIDI file and not the actual music.

This is confusing to me since digi design insists that MIDI isn't music, rather a means of controlling hardware via other hardware. I know midi as audio that I can convert into MMF files to make ringtones. And that's what these midi files sound like when imported or input onto a midi track.

I still need another midi cable to try what has been suggested here. Since the album is complete we are working on promotion and touring down the coast.

I appreciate your advice though.
Click to expand...

ohhhh, no no. see, that's where you're getting confused. MIDI is NOT audio. it's a language. All it is is ones and zeros. Just numbers that the computer translates into on/off messages. When you are "hearing" MIDI in your ringtones or in Pro Tools...what is actually happening is the MIDI notes are sending messages to the computer telling it to play a certain note, for a certain duration, at a certain volume/velocity, etc. Where the computer get's it's sounds to play through your speakers depends on what plugins/sounds the computer installed on it. In your case, a phone has really shitty sounds and your computer doesn't have any good sounds installed on it (or at least you can't locate them in the new version of PT). When you spend a bunch of money on a synth like a Korg Triton, you'll get really good sounds.

when you're recording onto a MIDI track and then playing back you're telling PT to play back just general midi (GM) sounds....these GM sounds are from a standard, but horribly sounding synthesizer. You can route that MIDI note to trigger anything you want. In fact, if you've ever been to a live concert all the lights are controlled by MIDI as well. Just telling the lights to turn on or off. If you ended up purchasing another MIDI cable for your keyboard, you could be able to have all your sounds on your keyboard triggered by a MIDI track in PT. You could just play the song once onto a MIDI track and then go in and edit each note individually. Search around here for a link to learn more about what MIDI can do for you (sorry, I don't know any links off the top of my head)...and read your PT manual about MIDI. You can do cool things with MIDI but you really have to understand how it all works first.

I'm also confused at what you're trying to do still. Do you have a song already sequenced on the synth that you're trying to get PT to start playing? Or are you trying to press record in PT and then walk over to the synth and YOU start playing the keyboard and it record both the sounds and the MIDI notes?? Like I said above, the reason you're not hearing your sounds during playback is either a) you're not recording a MIDI track and/or b)you don't have a cable going from the OUT of PT to the IN of the synth. PT can't trigger the sounds in your synth unless you have a MIDI cable running from PT OUT to Triton In.

Let's do this as a test. Hook up the MIDI OUT of the 002 into the MIDI IN of the synth. Start up PT and import a MIDI track into PT and set the output of the MIDI track to your synth. Turn on the synth and turn the volume up on the speakers if they have them...or plug into the headphone output or whatever. Press play in PT. You should now be hearing audio playback with your synth sounds.
 
Ok I got two MIDI cables now. MIDI IN of the synth to the 002 OUT and the MIDI OUT of the synth to the 002 IN. This setup is still not working. Is it possible both cables are bad?

bennychico11, you lost me during your yest.

Hook up the MIDI OUT of the 002 into the MIDI IN of the synth. Start up PT and import a MIDI track into PT and set the output of the MIDI track to your synth. Turn on the synth and turn the volume up on the speakers if they have them...or plug into the headphone output or whatever. Press play in PT. You should now be hearing audio playback with your synth sounds.
Click to expand...

If I record enable the audio track in protools I can hear sounds created with the synth (triton) via the RCAs connecting the keyboard to the 002. But I still can not start the board.
 
what do you mean about "starting the board"? what are you trying to start? is there a sequence you've already created in the triton that you're trying to get PT to play?
 
For the most part yeah, we create the beats in the triton and we record each sound of the track into PT. ususually 8-12 sounds to make a beat. We input each sound individually into a PT track so we can ensure it is leveled properly.

Before we resetup the studio we were able to get PT to start the keyboard. Meaning, I could press record on the track and record/play up top and the keyboard would play the selected sound and PT would record it. Repeat this process 8-12 times depending on the number of sounds and we have a beat.

Since PT doesn't start the board, its nearly impossible to loop the sounds in PT to create the beat. We can record manually, (press play on the keyboard and press play on PT) but the timing isn't right and the beat will never loop properly.

That is why we only had one MIDI cable in use before, to tell the triton to start playing. The audio is transferred via left and right RCA jacks.
 
what you need to have done is to make sure MIDI Beat Clock is enabled. Choose MIDI-->MIDI Beat clock. In the dialog box select enable MIDI Beat Clock and then select devices you want to receive MBC.

That should do it. However, if you want even more control, consider learning more about MIDI tracks. You'll be able to record each sound individually into PT onto their own MIDI tracks and be able to adjust and tweak them even more precisely than your Triton would allow you. Just a suggestion.
:cool:
 
I can tell that you know what your talking about but I am affraid that the MBC what enable already. I did double check though testing each, "DigiDesign Digi 002 port1 and port 2. Selected individualy and simoltaneously with and without MS GS Wavetable SW synth selected. In doing so I also changed ports on the rack from port 1 to port 2.

Basicly, any combination of MIDI cables, ports, and MBC settings I tried in light of your suggestion.

I should take a screen shot to prove that the synth is currently set to "External MIDI" and "Receive Ext. Realtime Commands". I don't know if local control needs to be on or off for the keyboard but I tried both with no luck.
 
make sure you also still have a cable connected to the out of PT to the IN of the synth.


take a look at page 623-625 in your manual to read about using MIDI Machine Control as well. not sure how much it will help you since not all MIDI synth devices work off of Machine Control...but worth a try.
 
Key question does the Triton use MIDI clock, or MIDI TIME CODE for external sync? (The manual will tell you). It sounds to me like it uses MTC - the bit about "Receive Ext. Realtime Commands" sounds like MIDI Machine Code (MMC). You will need to set the MMC parameters in the dialogue box (sorry I haven't got PT in front of me - I'm at work). MMC sends transport info (stop start etc) and MTC sends sync info.
So with reference to some of the replies above, - you don't need to use MIDI tracks at all.
Good Luck

Orc
 
thanks orc, I looked around for referrences to MMC in PT and had no luck. I too have to go to work. So, when you get the chance please provide more info. Finally, someone who believes I don't have to use MIDI tracks as opposed to Audio tracks to import our beats.

I can't find the manual for the 002, just one for the Mbox. The organization of this supposed studio is non existant. I'm trying to step in and make sence of the matter. Thanks again...

Cayotic.com
Jailbirdmusic.com
 
The Reference Guide (manual) for Pro Tools LE version 6.9 is available from the DIGI website. Page 623 covers using MMC. Basically you set up MMC through the Setups menu-> Peripherals ->Machine Control. I hope this helps - I have to say I haven't used it myself - I use MIDI clock.

Orc
 
cayotic said:
Finally, someone who believes I don't have to use MIDI tracks as opposed to Audio tracks to import our beats.
Click to expand...

hahaha
come on man, if you're going to use MIDI you need to understand how everything works with MIDI. Just because one way worked for you before doesn't mean that that's the only way to do things. I was giving you another option to try. After you get this all figured out...just take a few minutes and try recording your tracks to MIDI tracks. Not only will you have more control over your music, but you'll be able to reroute the MIDI tracks to other hardware or software synthesizers utilizing even more sounds. And you'll also have a backup of your MIDI sequence on your computer.
 
carelessorc said:
The Reference Guide (manual) for Pro Tools LE version 6.9 is available from the DIGI website. Page 623 covers using MMC. Basically you set up MMC through the Setups menu-> Peripherals ->Machine Control. I hope this helps - I have to say I haven't used it myself - I use MIDI clock.

Orc
Click to expand...




THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It worked and I promise to learn more about MIDI and its seemingly endless uses.

In appreciation, for those that like hip hop, check out a track we did on the old setup and hopefully remake on the new setup.

http://cayotic.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1227

Thanks again,
 
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