AKG C414 vs KSM32 vs SDC

tkingen

tkingen

Djembes Rock
Which do you prefer? I have a KSM32 and a couple of SDC's for recording acoustic guitar, but have been curious about the AKG C414. I know there are a few different models of C414's but the nomenclature ascapes me right now. For recording acoustic, I've seen pictures of C414's being used by Tom Petty, George Harrison, and many others. So, they MUST be good!

Thanks,
Terry
 
tkingen said:
Which do you prefer? I have a KSM32 and a couple of SDC's for recording acoustic guitar, but have been curious about the AKG C414. I know there are a few different models of C414's but the nomenclature ascapes me right now. For recording acoustic, I've seen pictures of C414's being used by Tom Petty, George Harrison, and many others. So, they MUST be good!

Thanks,
Terry
Click to expand...

A few questions:

1) Flatpicking? Strumming? Fingerstyle? Flesh and nail? Fingerpicks?
2) Style(s) of music?
3) Guitar being recorded?
4) Solo instrumental? Vocal accompaniment? Destined to sit in a heavy mix?

Obviously, which mics will work well will depend to a large extent on the answers to these questions.
 
sdelsolray said:
A few questions:

1) Flatpicking? Strumming? Fingerstyle? Flesh and nail? Fingerpicks?
2) Style(s) of music?
3) Guitar being recorded?
4) Solo instrumental? Vocal accompaniment? Destined to sit in a heavy mix?

Obviously, which mics will work well will depend to a large extent on the answers to these questions.
Click to expand...

sdelsolray,

Good questions!
1) Mostly hybrid picking with pick and fingertips. Also, strumming with flesh and nail.
2) Delta and piedmont blues, country and folk strumming.
3) Martin D18 (mahogany w/spruce top), D16 (rosewood w/spruce top), 00015 (all mahogany).
4) Solo instrumental and vocal accompaniment.

Thanks !
Terry
 
tkingen said:
sdelsolray,

Good questions!
1) Mostly hybrid picking with pick and fingertips. Also, strumming with flesh and nail.
2) Delta and piedmont blues, country and folk strumming.
3) Martin D18 (mahogany w/spruce top), D16 (rosewood w/spruce top), 00015 (all mahogany).
4) Solo instrumental and vocal accompaniment.

Thanks !
Terry
Click to expand...

Ok. Just a couple of more questions:

1) What SDs do you have?
2) What pre are you using?
3) Are you recording the guitar and vocals together, or separately?
 
sdelsolray said:
Ok. Just a couple of more questions:

1) What SDs do you have?
2) What pre are you using?
3) Are you recording the guitar and vocals together, or separately?
Click to expand...

sdelsolray,

The SDC's are a KM184 and ADK SC2. Pres are a DMP3 or MAudio Tampa. And, typically, guitar and vocals are recorded separately.

Regards,
Terry
 
Terry,

You've got some good recording gear and some nice guitars. Here's some thoughts:

Guitars: If you haven't tried this yet, try some D'Addario Flattops on the D-18, and some Elixir Polywebs on the 000-15. Those two guitars are the more "authentic" instruments for the blues, etc. As to the folk styles, the D-16 with a set of Dean Markley Alchemy (either phos bronze or 80/20) should record well.

Mics: Have you tried using the KSM32 at the 12th fret and the KM184 towards the lower bout? Back off a bit for the D models. If you could lose the ADK and pick up another KM184, you could try true stereo recording techniques for the guitar.

Vocals: How does the KSM32 work for your voice? For some, it wil work great. For others, not so great. Find your vocal mic. It might be the KSM32, it might not. Can't help much here.

Pres: Eventually, you might want to upgrade the pres. Spendy, but worth it.

Hope this helps. Good luck!
 
sdelsolray,

Wow, thanks for suggestions. I'll definitely give your mic placements a try. As for the pres, it may be time to rent a couple of nice ones for the adventure of comparison.
What really has me intrigued is your suggestions of different strings. I've been using D'Adarrio EJ16's and 17's, but remember in the past recording with Elixir's and getting a great recorded sound. For playing around the house I prefered the uncoated strings, which seems to ring out with more harmonic richness, but this may not transfer too well in the recording process.
Think I'll go change those strings right now!
Thanks for your help...it's certainly appreciated.

Terry
 
got something simple to add..
i recorded accoustic guitars with some Rode NT3 mics, rode nt1,
a marshall...cant remember the type....a green mic,

and my akg c414 kicks all of those mics in the butt when recording accoustic guitars...

sadly i never touched a ksm32 yet ... but the 414 , neat machine !
 
To further this thread, the KM184 sounds very immediate with a sometimes slightly sharp top end and pretty robust bottom. The KSM32 is pretty neutral, but sometimes I'd like something in between. I also have a TLM103 and a KSM44, which are wonderful, but seem to result in more of a smooth, silky sound.
So, I'm wondering if one of the C414 models might be somewhere in between the KM184 and KSM32. I'm looking for something with a high degree of accuracy, yet a warmish sound, too. So, maybe a bright sounding LDC?

Terry
 
tkingen said:
To further this thread, the KM184 sounds very immediate with a sometimes slightly sharp top end and pretty robust bottom. The KSM32 is pretty neutral, but sometimes I'd like something in between. I also have a TLM103 and a KSM44, which are wonderful, but seem to result in more of a smooth, silky sound.
So, I'm wondering if one of the C414 models might be somewhere in between the KM184 and KSM32. I'm looking for something with a high degree of accuracy, yet a warmish sound, too. So, maybe a bright sounding LDC?

Terry
Click to expand...

You've got an excellent mic collection. Sure you don't have any more mics? The 414 (I'm assuming you talking BLS, not TLII) is accurate and somewhat warm. Try the TLM103 off axis to the instrument, as that will tame the high end bump in that mic. Try placing it about 18" out from the 12th fret, but at a 90 degree angle, so the left side of mic is pointing at the 12th fret. That will pickup the bass and mids well (you'll get that nice TLM103 midrange, and attenuate the highs a bit. You can do the same thing with the KM184 with good results.
 
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I was able to spend a little time this evening experimenting. It seems apparent that the main problem has been mic placement. For some strange reason I've been trying to get a realistic sound by placing the mics 6 to 12 inches away from the guitar. If you stick your ear (or mic) that close to a guitar it's bound to sound different than in a "real" listening experience. 18 to 24 inches away sounds much more natural and convincing.
Now it seems so obvious...I don't know why the solution eluded my feeble mind for so long! Plus, my mics really do sound great and each one is a little different. I feel fortunate for this humble home studio. But I'm still curious about the c414's!
Sdelsolray and earworm, thanks for your insights.

Regards,
Terry
 
tkingen said:
I was able to spend a little time this evening experimenting. It seems apparent that the main problem has been mic placement. For some strange reason I've been trying to get a realistic sound by placing the mics 6 to 12 inches away from the guitar. If you stick your ear (or mic) that close to a guitar it's bound to sound different than in a "real" listening experience. 18 to 24 inches away sounds much more natural and convincing.
Now it seems so obvious...I don't know why the solution eluded my feeble mind for so long! Plus, my mics really do sound great and each one is a little different. I feel fortunate for this humble home studio. But I'm still curious about the c414's!
Sdelsolray and earworm, thanks for your insights.

Regards,
Terry
Click to expand...

Mic placement. That's it alright. That's a great mic collection you have. If you're still wanting to add to your gear, you might consider getting a second KM184 for a pair, or begin thinking about ugrading your pres.
 
FYI the new 414 XL's are supposed to be the shizznit from what i heard from respected people like Bob Ohlsson. I'm going to check it tonite if they have them at sam ash that is.
 
sdelsolray,
do you have any favorite pres to recommend? I'd be interested in getting something that won't be outgrown as my skills increase. I know that there are plenty of opinions on this board, but it would be interesting to know your choice(s). Btw, a pair of KM184's is a great suggestion, but I'm finding the KSM44 more agreeable to my setup. What do you think of a pair of those for stereo micing?
Teacher...let us know what you think of the new 414 XL!

Regards,
Terry
 
tkingen said:
sdelsolray,
do you have any favorite pres to recommend? I'd be interested in getting something that won't be outgrown as my skills increase. I know that there are plenty of opinions on this board, but it would be interesting to know your choice(s). Btw, a pair of KM184's is a great suggestion, but I'm finding the KSM44 more agreeable to my setup. What do you think of a pair of those for stereo micing?
Teacher...let us know what you think of the new 414 XL!

Regards,
Terry
Click to expand...

Well, I just record solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar, a variety of sub-styles, which include new age, celtic, blues, ragtime, American Primative, etc. Anyway, as to whether to add another KM184 or another KSM44, it probably doesn't matter much for your uses. The point is to have a pair of the same mics to allow you to use traditional stereo recording techniques, such as XY, ORTF, spaced pair, etc.

As far as pres go, I guess it first depends on your budget (I'm assuming two channels). My favorite pres for my recording are the Pendulum Audio MDP-1a and the John Hardy M-2. I have both. There are many others than will do well too, including the Great River MP-2 (not the NV), The Millenia Media pre, and the Speck 5.0.

I can't say enough good things about the Pendulum. Even after having it for 2 1/2 years, it still amazes me every time I use it.
 
sdelsolray said:
Well, I just record solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar, a variety of sub-styles, which include new age, celtic, blues, ragtime, American Primative, etc.

sdelsolray,

Wow, you're doing much of the same material that interests me. Have you released anything or posted any mp3's? It'd be a pleasure to hear some of your stuff recorded with your gear.
Click to expand...
 
tkingen said:
sdelsolray said:
Well, I just record solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar, a variety of sub-styles, which include new age, celtic, blues, ragtime, American Primative, etc.

sdelsolray,

Wow, you're doing much of the same material that interests me. Have you released anything or posted any mp3's? It'd be a pleasure to hear some of your stuff recorded with your gear.
Click to expand...

I sent you a PM. I'm gonna have to email you a mp3.
Click to expand...
 
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