Acoustic... 2 Small Diaphragm -vs- 1 LDC & 2 SDC's

S

shawntp

New member
Hey folks. Current hobby home recording gear is MacBook Pro / Logic Pro 7 / Presonus Firebox / RNP preamp / 1 x TLM103 / 1 x SM57 / Gibson Advanced Jumbo / Classic 57 les paul / Mesa Lonestar.

I'm almost happy but my acoustic recordings suck. I've been ignorantly using the SM57 and TLM103 together on my acoustic (like I do on my amp with great results) and am not happy with the sound. I am trying to go for a nice mellow americana rock sound - 1 acoustic / 1 electric / keys (think mellower Ryan Adams / Springsteen). My favorite acoustic recorded sounds are Ryan Adams Heardbreaker and Damien Rice "O". So ...I know I need some small condensers in the mix in order to be able to get to where I want ...on to my question.

I read that while 2 SDC's are considered a staple for acoustic recording I also read that 2 SDC's and one large condenser a bit back or over the shoulder can be an even nicer setup (especially since I want a nice warm - upfront acoustic in my mix).

Ok - here is the question. When you take 2 Small D. mics and use them with a large I imagine you have the small's spread and the large in the middle and then you bring in the large until it adds however much extra sound/balance you want.

With this setup can you "skimp" at all on the Small D. mics? Or will they still be the main representation of your guitar.

I guess specifically I am trying to skimp and get a cheaper used set like SM81/NT5 rather than spending a little more and getting something like CEMC6/c42.

I have no experience with these recording techniques so I I am jut trying to figure if my tlm103 will pickup what my small's wouldnt if I skimped.

Perhaps this is just a derailed line of thinking ...but I dont have the goods to play with here.
 
The idea with the SDC pair is that is your stereo image. Mics with poor transient response won't make for a good stereo image because it is mainly high-frequency cues (combined with phase differences) that we humans use to determine location.

Often the third mic on acoustic guitar is used for adding "body" or that dreaded word "warmth" which the main pair misses. Thus it is added in the mix below the level of the pair. If you rely heavily on a center mic for your mix, you will reduce the stereo image, which may or may not be a good thing, depending on your goal. But the transient response of a LDC is typically less than that of a SDC.

Anyway, the SM81 is a perfectly good mic, so I wouldn't worry about it. The difference between the 81 and the 57 on acoustic guitar is so night and day that once you've tried it, you'll feel silly for asking.

That is not to say that a more expensive mic isn't better, but that the difference between a high-end mic and the SM81 is much much smaller than the difference between the 57 and the 81.
 
Some of the acoustic tracks on Heartbreaker sound like maybe ribbon mics were used to me. I don't have any insight on getting that type of sound but I'm curious to see if anyone else does. Heartbreaker is one of my favorite acoustic albums. I love the sound of the guitars and drums.........everything else too, in those songs.

I imagine the rooms used to record that album are pretty nice.
 
notCardio said:
I've been trying to justify buying a couple of high-end sdc's - like 81's. :o
Click to expand...

Get the fabulous MSH-1O SDCs and be done with it! Add a fabulous MSH-4 tube SDC for the third in a Decca Tree!
 
apl said:
Get the fabulous MSH-1O SDCs and be done with it! Add a fabulous MSH-4 tube SDC for the third in a Decca Tree!
Click to expand...

You've pimped to great success, as all MSH mics appear to be out of stock at present. And, just when I was about to order some MSH-1C's and an MSH-4. :(
 
scrubs said:
You've pimped to great success, as all MSH mics appear to be out of stock at present. And, just when I was about to order some MSH-1C's and an MSH-4. :(
Click to expand...

Wow, that's poopy.
 
apl said:
Get the fabulous MSH-1O SDCs and be done with it! Add a fabulous MSH-4 tube SDC for the third in a Decca Tree!
Click to expand...

At some point I probably will, just because of the price, and my need to buy things I don't need.

I'm sure they're very nice mics, but somehow I doubt if they're valid replacements for 81s for acoustic guitar.

Let's put it this way: have you heard of anyone ditching their 81s in favor of the MSH-10s?
 
Most home-studio recordings I've heard that use more than 2 mic's have had serious phase problems. If you're not experienced at recording, phase issues can be hard to understand and avoid. It can be good to use several mic's during a take, each recorded to a separate track, then see which sound better. But when you start mixing mic's together in the same channel, it doesn't necessarily work in a way where more mic's make the sound better.

IME a mic's smoothness on ac guitar has mostly to do with its transient response... how it responds to the string attack. Ribbon mic's like the Beyer M160 are very nice that way. So are the MSH1-O and MSH4 - when those become available again. If I were you I'd get a pair of the MSH1-Os and experiment a bit with stereo mic'ing techniques before investing several hundred in other mic's. You may find that you like them better anyway.

Tim
 
Great info everyone and thanks.

I should also add that I mostly play fingerstyle. Not sure what that does in terms of transients.

Anyways I guess if I get a pair of SM81's or NT5's that should let be do plenty of damage.

I read about the CEMC6 and C42 but am not ready to plunk that much down.
 
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