Really bassy JCM800

T

the_crowing

New member
Hey guys, I was wondering if someone could offer some guidance regarding this issue... First off, my buddy's rig consists of a SG Special Faded going into a JCM800 2205 to an Avatar 4x12 loaded with G12H30's. He sometimes overdrives it with a Boss SD-1.

The problem is, the Marshall seems to be pretty bass heavy, I actually suspect a mod to get a rounder-sounding clean, but it doesn't translate really well on the OD channel. Now he does manage to get a useable tone when the bass is around 9 o' clock. That makes it fine for playing. But as soon as it comes to recording it, I just get a tone with huge bottom end and no definition at all. I tried playing aroung with mic selection (57, e906 and 421) and placement, and I couldn't manage to get a satisfying tone, and there's just so much you can do with a high pass filter.

So what I'm basically asking for is, how should I go to acheive the JCM800 sound as we know it, and do you have any idea why I could have so much trouble getting anything good?
 
I have a stupid question to ask, before I make my next statement....

Have you played many halfstacks?

Four 12" speakers put out a lot of bottom end no matter how you eq the amp. Also, you might want to try rolling off the guitars volume to clean up the amp for a "clean" sound.
 
Well, it's actually my cab we're using (his has 2xG12H30's and 2xV30's), but I can't really compare the bass on his rig with mine, since I'm running a Tele into a Classic 50...

And he doesn't need the clean channel, or a cleaner sound for that matter since he really isn't using that much gain, which makes the mush that comes out even more puzzling...


(And it definitely isn't a stupid question, because you're absolutely right: I have very little experience playing through a halfstack, and barely none recording it.)

EDIT: I'll try and upload a clip if it could be of any help.
 
hey first off, nice call on the tele-classic 50-avatar cab

my other guitarist plays that, the classic 50 is a completely underrated amp!

2nd..i know you said you played around with mic placement, but how are you micing the cab? it seems like an issue you could resolve with mic placement, maybe by bringing it closer to the cone for brighter tone?

if there really is a mod done to it, i'm not sure how much you'd be able to do...
 
Thanks for the compliments, the head's in pretty bad shape, no logo, the tolex torn off in parts, but it sounds really sweet, what an underdog...

Unfortunately, I did try moving the mic around, to no avail. The clip provided is of the e906 about 2/3rd of the way towards the edge of the cone, and that was pretty much what I could get out of it...

EDIT: I'm actually pretty sure someone screwed around with the cap values, but I still don't get why it sounds so unclear even with the bass rolled-off...
 
It sounds like that was recorded using the neck pickup with some of the highs rolled off on the guitar, and the volume knob turned down a little. Is that how you recorded it?
 
it really does sound like something is damping the signal.. check cables and effects... Not a worn battery in effect or guitar (active)???
 
If you guys are liking the the sound of the amp/guitar in the room, I think you might just need to spend more time experimenting with miking the amp. Does it sound bassy with the mic on the grill?
 
So I am confused.......

You say the amp has too much bass, btu you also say "but it sounds really sweet".

Are you saying that the mic'd tone is the only thing that is too bassy?

Are you only close mic'ing or tried adding a room mic? Have you had someone else move the mic around the cab while you sit and listen from another room so that you can hear a lot more places than just a few places you put it and then go to test it?

From what I hear, it sounds like most home recordings. Nothing too off the wall that would stick out as a cause. The JCM amps are not "clean" amps. The "clean" channel just means "less" distortion. You need to roll of the guitars volume a good amount for a clean sound. Thats just life. I know its hard to do, but once you do it, you find there is whole seperate amp you probably haven't explored.
 
Another dumb question:

Are you pointing the right side of the 906 towards the speaker?
 
Woah, I'm gonna have to try and keep up I guess... Thanks for your help, it's really appreciated guys.

Jouni: Nope, cable is fine and battery in SD-1 is brand new. Pickups are passive.

gcapel: Well we're not really going for full-on heavy rock tones, think more Jupiter-era Cave-In, or Further Seems Forever of somthing among those lines.

TravisinFlorida: Yeah that was the mic up-close, since the room is definitely not ideal. I'm guesssing proximity effect could explain the big bottom end, but the really mushy midrange is still puzzling me.

Outlaws: The "sweet" part was referring to my Classic 50, sorry for the confusion. And yeah, it's really the mic'ed tone that is too bassy, because it sounds alright in the room. I unfortunately wouldn't have a sweet condenser handy for the room sound but I think it's better off, I'd be getting some nasty reflexions in there. Also, we're not trying to make it clean, we're trying to get a well-defined, +/- overdriven tone.

dementedchord: Unfortunately, that's the only cab I got.

rory: Yeah, don't worry, I checked for that.
 
the_crowing said:
The "sweet" part was referring to my Classic 50, sorry for the confusion. And yeah, it's really the mic'ed tone that is too bassy, because it sounds alright in the room. I unfortunately wouldn't have a sweet condenser handy for the room sound but I think it's better off, I'd be getting some nasty reflexions in there. Also, we're not trying to make it clean, we're trying to get a well-defined, +/- overdriven tone.
Click to expand...


Ummm....so it sounds good in the room, but you still think the room will have some nasty reflections? :confused: :confused: It sounds like it already sounds good in the room. ;) I wouldn't be too concerned right off the bat.

I would try getting your hands on a condensor and sticking it right where you're standing that you said sounds good. That or two or three feet off the grill. It might sound better than you think.
 
How old are the tubes? The highs and definition are the first things to go when the tubes get old.
 
It may be your choice of speakers in that Avatar cab. Celestion G12H are known for thier thick bottom end and are actually reproductions of a speaker that was originally made for bassists but ended up becoming more embraced by guitarists. Maybe trying that head on a few different cabs that have speakers with more of a mid/high end presence might help troubleshoot it.

If you do find the head or guitar was not the problem after trying that and your interested in swapping a couple speakers out of that cab, a popular speaker configuration is to pair G12H's with Vintage 30's which counterbalance and complement eachothers tonal range perfectly. A Marshall 100watt TSL 2x12 combo has this exact speaker configuration if you ever want to preview it.
 
Back when the earth was cooling and JCM800's were new, the cabinets were loaded with G12M70 speakers. They had more top and a tighter low end.

I still think it's the tubes.
 
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