Youth Choir Recording

guitarfreak12

guitarfreak12

New member
recording a youth choir soon, all teens. What would be the best way to record them? Separate them a bit and use a mic in front of each section, or stereo the whole group? I'll be doing it in a church that is great acoustically. The only reason I ask about the separating them is beacause they aren't pros, they are just form our youth camp, some are great songers, some are not plus they might not be able to "mix themselves" well, and we do have some vocal hogs.

I have 2 at 4040's a SE LDC, A Rode NT1, and a AT 3035.
 
I did a very similar recording a while back and used a microphone for each section.

Of course condensers will only work well this way.

If there are soloist you can place a dynamic microphone directly in front of them.

Give each microphone a separate track.

Also if the acoustics are good and not terribly live pull back the microphones so they will capture each group, try maybe 3-4 feet.

Also have a good listen before you begin because you will find some singers will sing dramatically louder then other (not always the good ones).

You will want to make sure those singers are not directly in front of the microphone and perhaps move them further back.

You will be glad you used at least one microphone per section later as this will allow you some control over the mix.

Also if you have enough microphones, place one back in the room for ambiance.

-Stew
 
Nope, stereo the whole group. This sort of work is what I do for a living(choirs, orchestras, etc live)..spot mics take away from the blend of the group...obviously the choir as a whole is the instrument(as is the room) so you want to focus on that.

What I would do is throw up an ORTF pair as the main pair for the choir(cardiod to cut out audience chatter), and then in the very back (if the room is great!) throw up an "ambience" pair of mics,pointed straight up at the ceiling, and mix it in about 10db down. this will give the "being there" feeling...omnis are preferred for the ambience mics, but cardiods will work too.


if you have the tracks, throw a flanking pair of omnis outside of the ORTF pair to help round it out a bit. if not, the ORTF pair should be great!
 
here are some pics from my last gig.

I ran 12 channels, (couldve run 24, the stagetec has 24)
P5130647.jpg



MK250/MV220s pointing straight up to capture ambience. these were recorded about 15 db down from the rest. about 30 ft from main pair(s)
P5130645.jpg


M296, meter spread, to fill it in a bit
P5130643.jpg


m930s Sl, ORTF
P5130644.jpg


426b and cmc62s(jdisc)
426 was a solo mic.. had the setting on blumlein/.the schoeps were raised to about 12' during the performance.
P5130648.jpg


m300 sr, ortf
P5130646.jpg
 
thanks, I will have an 8 track capability. This should work well, but I might need to experment with the ambient mics, It will be an empty sanctuary, lots of flat surfaces. But I won't have to worry about audience though. My rode is an older rode and has omni on it, it should help.
 
you dont want to spot mic each section...a well placed stereo pair will capture the choir naturally, no mixing needed. "control over the mix"...that is what mic placement is for. The Director/conductor controls the mix. it isnt the recordist job...

if you are creative, you could make a jecklin disc, throw that in front of the choir, and be amazed!




musicstew said:
I did a very similar recording a while back and used a microphone for each section.

Of course condensers will only work well this way.

If there are soloist you can place a dynamic microphone directly in front of them.

Give each microphone a separate track.

Also if the acoustics are good and not terribly live pull back the microphones so they will capture each group, try maybe 3-4 feet.

Also have a good listen before you begin because you will find some singers will sing dramatically louder then other (not always the good ones).

You will want to make sure those singers are not directly in front of the microphone and perhaps move them further back.

You will be glad you used at least one microphone per section later as this will allow you some control over the mix.

Also if you have enough microphones, place one back in the room for ambiance.

-Stew
Click to expand...
 
great! throw the ORTF pair, two flankers (whatever you have), and then in the back, throw up that omni!! itll be beautiful.! with this type of material..less is more! this isnt a rock production, so dont worry about "fixing in the mix" get it beautiful on the fly! classical=minimalism.




guitarfreak12 said:
thanks, I will have an 8 track capability. This should work well, but I might need to experment with the ambient mics, It will be an empty sanctuary, lots of flat surfaces. But I won't have to worry about audience though. My rode is an older rode and has omni on it, it should help.
Click to expand...
 
I agree with a stereo pair on the whole shebang. ORTF is a great configuration for nice stereo imagery. 4040's can do that well.

And I wouldn't split them up from the formation that they've been practicing in. They won't be used to it, and it'll freak them out, because they'll be hearing things they're not used to.
 
the only reason I think I'd like control of the mix is because of the fact that they aren't pros, just teens from our youth camp. Some have good experience in choirs, others don't. But I will go with you guys, I'd bbe a fool not to follow advice from guys who earn a living at it!!
 
Great recording, BigRay.

I did have a few questions if you don't mind.

Regarding the omnis about 30 feet back,
what is the reason for pointing them
upward rather than forward? And what
is the reson for elevating them up high
off the ground?

Regarding your three center mic setups
(i.e. cmc62s, M296s, 426b), they all seem
to be in about the same location.
When you go to mix do you just pick
which of the three got the best sounding
recording and go with that one?

Regarding the flanking mics (i.e. m300s, m930s),
when you go to mix do you pan one
set right and the other left? And when
you mix with the flankers, do you keep them
stereo or convert to mono?

And one last question. The 426 is out of my
budget. Do you know anything about
the Studio Projects LSD-2? Is it any
good?
 
I am glad to answer questions!

The intent with the omnis was merely to capture ambience, and by pointing them up, away from the sound source and high above the crowd, I got ONLY ambience, which was the point. the CMC62S was on a jecklin disc and served as a choir pickup in that picture....the disc served as a bleed barrier. the 296s were my "main pair", the pair that I used to pick up the whole shebang. the AKG 426B was set on Crossed Hypercardiods and served as a soloist mic. There were 4 soloists that stood right in front of it. I engaged the pad too for those nasty HF transients sopranos can have...I mixed them all in, according to how loud they were supposed to be in the material.. they were in the same general area, but carefully placed, and did not pick up the same things...

the flanks...when I go to mix, I simply pan them to their exact locations in the soundfield, as I have them setup in the picture...always stereo, with the left mic panned almost hard left, the right mic on the left side a little more to the right, etc....I go for realism. they arent always "hard panned" ..it just depends on the width of the ensemble. I strive for realism above all.

LSD2...I havent heard it personally, but I know that many people who own it love it. as far as cheaper mics that work well for classical material...the AT4050 is a fantastic bargain. I just ordered some more for spot mics to accentuate my main pairs of DPA/AKG/Gefell, etc.











.
Brackish said:
Great recording, BigRay.

I did have a few questions if you don't mind.

Regarding the omnis about 30 feet back,
what is the reason for pointing them
upward rather than forward? And what
is the reson for elevating them up high
off the ground?

Regarding your three center mic setups
(i.e. cmc62s, M296s, 426b), they all seem
to be in about the same location.
When you go to mix do you just pick
which of the three got the best sounding
recording and go with that one?

Regarding the flanking mics (i.e. m300s, m930s),
when you go to mix do you pan one
set right and the other left? And when
you mix with the flankers, do you keep them
stereo or convert to mono?

And one last question. The 426 is out of my
budget. Do you know anything about
the Studio Projects LSD-2? Is it any
good?
Click to expand...
 
oh yeah....the picture you see is not of the recording I posted. The recording I posted was with an ORTF Pair with OMNI flankers and one ambient mic.


I always mix ambience in about 10-15 down from everything else...really makes it feel as though you are right there in the room.
Brackish said:
Great recording, BigRay.

I did have a few questions if you don't mind.

Regarding the omnis about 30 feet back,
what is the reason for pointing them
upward rather than forward? And what
is the reson for elevating them up high
off the ground?

Regarding your three center mic setups
(i.e. cmc62s, M296s, 426b), they all seem
to be in about the same location.
When you go to mix do you just pick
which of the three got the best sounding
recording and go with that one?

Regarding the flanking mics (i.e. m300s, m930s),
when you go to mix do you pan one
set right and the other left? And when
you mix with the flankers, do you keep them
stereo or convert to mono?

And one last question. The 426 is out of my
budget. Do you know anything about
the Studio Projects LSD-2? Is it any
good?
Click to expand...
 
BigRay said:
oh yeah....the picture you see is not of the recording I posted. The recording I posted was with an ORTF Pair with OMNI flankers and one ambient mic.


I always mix ambience in about 10-15 down from everything else...really makes it feel as though you are right there in the room.
Click to expand...

The ultimate " a little reverb on the whole track to glue it together" setting = use the room.

Very nice.
 
MadTiger3000 said:
The ultimate " a little reverb on the whole track to glue it together" setting = use the room.

Very nice.
Click to expand...

Thanks man. Just a trick I picked up from my mentor. Hopefully itll help someone else.
 
BigRay, how far up off the ground do you have
to get the ambiance omnis if they are placed
amongst the audience? For example, would
6 feet off the ground be enough?

You mix ambiance about 10-15 down? That's
a coincidence because I mix it between 9-18
down. I guess with you being similar I
must be on the right track there.

Regarding the 4050s, how do you plan to use
them as spots? As singles in cardioid? As
pairs?

In your picture you have the ambiance omnis
about 30-feet back, which looks to be
about the mid point of the room. Do you
think there'd be any benefit to having
additional ambiance mics at the far back of the
room, to give the recording more depth?
Or is it not helpful that far back due to
too much echo?
 
There is no set rule, just get them as far away from "bad" sounds ie; talking, coughing, paper rustling, and up there in the sky where all the good ambience is.. is..as far as additional ambience mics, I dont see it as necessary. the recordings are plenty deep with one pair of ambience mics, and with additional pairs, it can be too much. There is such a thing as too much depth. I use my spot mics a vareity of ways, cardiod, omni, M/S, any number of ways. I rarely ever do single mics.




Brackish said:
BigRay, how far up off the ground do you have
to get the ambiance omnis if they are placed
amongst the audience? For example, would
6 feet off the ground be enough?

You mix ambiance about 10-15 down? That's
a coincidence because I mix it between 9-18
down. I guess with you being similar I
must be on the right track there.

Regarding the 4050s, how do you plan to use
them as spots? As singles in cardioid? As
pairs?

In your picture you have the ambiance omnis
about 30-feet back, which looks to be
about the mid point of the room. Do you
think there'd be any benefit to having
additional ambiance mics at the far back of the
room, to give the recording more depth?
Or is it not helpful that far back due to
too much echo?
Click to expand...
 
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