Why You Called - alternative pop - comments???

andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
hey yo,

Old song, though I redid everything over the last couple weeks. How did it turn out?

Main battles: presence on vocals, kick/bass combo, and clarity of toms

This one is pretty hard to sing for me since the volume changes considerably. Lots of vocal edits and comps of other takes. Compressed the vocals pretty hard too.



I bet you're sitting in the dark,
I thought the ending was so clear.
Left you alone a broken heart,
I'll tear the letters I have here.

The gasoline spills on the box,
I saved your cards and notes for years.
You sound like heaven when we talk,
but now all I can hear are tears.

I don't know why you called,
and let this come alive.
I don't know why you called,
and let this, breathe again.
I don't know why you called,
and let this never die.
I don't know why you called,
just let this be the end we both saw coming...
you can't stop your heart from running out.

Save the time we desperately tried to be so cool,
and we fooled them all with our big secret.
They never knew.

Softly, you stare in the morning.
Deadly, the night is always turning.
Tell me, one last little secret.
Maybe, I don't mean to keep it at all.
 
I can hear you did some more work on the vocal processing since the version I heard lately. I think it's much improved. That sizzle I was hearing on that held vocal note isn't there anymore, or not as obvious. Heavily compressed vocals are pretty standard for the genre. These don't sound too compressed. Did you raise the level of the harmony vox? I'm hearing them now. This is a good mix and a good song.
 
I didn't do too much...

I thought there were some "ringing" and "booming" sounds in the chorus vocals, so instead of going with extensive cuts on those freqs, I brought the cuts back in and just compressed harder. I also turned the heaviest guitars down about .6 db and that made a big difference in the vocal intelligibility. I also brought down the EQ shelf boost across the vocal bus and turned the mix bus high boost down as well. I really put more time into the kick and bass though - for some reason they were not sitting or hitting properly. I think this one is a little better in that area.
 
Yeah, often lowering one thing is better than boosting something else. It's really the truth, isn't it--9 times out of 10, the right answer is, lower those guitars! Such a hard lesson to learn for those of us who grew up listening to guitar-based music. But once you get it, you get it. The bass and drums do sound better.

I'm starting to think I should compress my vocals even harder. Now if I could sing as well as you...
 
Robus said:
Yeah, often lowering one thing is better than boosting something else. It's really the truth, isn't it--9 times out of 10, the right answer is, lower those guitars! Such a hard lesson to learn for those of us who grew up listening to guitar-based music. But once you get it, you get it. The bass and drums do sound better.

I'm starting to think I should compress my vocals even harder. Now if I could sing as well as you...
Click to expand...

1. It took me more vocal takes to complete this track than you probably think. I've no shame in admitting Melodyne touch-ups are used as well.
2. They are completely compressed to living sh#t. De-esser, 5:1 comp, 4:1 comp, and 6.7:1 comp, then the chorus vox have one more comp acting on them. Really, I'm doing it that way for the added gain from the knob on each comp...they are all different brands and each sounds a little different.
3. Two things I boost (at this point in my mixing "experience"): the kick around 65hz and the top end of the mix bus and/or vocal bus, but very slightly. I want these mastered at some point, and I want to leave that space there for those guys.
 
andrushkiwt said:
Two things I boost (at this point in my mixing "experience"): the kick around 65hz and the top end of the mix bus and/or vocal bus, but very slightly. I want these mastered at some point, and I want to leave that space there for those guys.
Click to expand...

That's something else I've noticed about your mixes lately; they sound less hyped and limited, more dynamic. Screwing up a perfectly good mix with amateurish attempts at "mastering" is one of the the most common mistakes I hear on the Clinic.

All my mixes are way soft, so I've probably gone too far in the opposite direction.

I've been using your suggested compression ratios lately, but I may need to clamp down more on the thresholds.
 
I set the ratios by how many dbs they are taking off and by the overall volume/dynamical range i'm hearing between words/lines. They are constantly changing by small amounts, def not a set thing. But remember that I'm practically screaming in the chorus and bridge in this song, so I need to hit it harder...your tunes are a little more mellow and relaxed, so removing 10dbs from your chorus might not work well. Use your ears on that, rather than the ratios...I just wrote those to say how hard I hard to hit them with all the screaming I did.
 
It sounds really good overall.

Some minor things that could subjectively help:
I'd lower the presence of the guitar and/or add a little reverb to them. The snare is a bit hollow (were mids scooped out or is that how the sample sounds?). I'm torn on the bass. I think it sounds good (good tone) but I'd experiment with lowering it a hair, and if that sounds too thin just bump it back up.

It's cool you decided to work through the old songs. The lyrics are good
 
Nola said:
It sounds really good overall.

Some minor things that could subjectively help:
I'd lower the presence of the guitar and/or add a little reverb to them. The snare is a bit hollow (were mids scooped out or is that how the sample sounds?). I'm torn on the bass. I think it sounds good (good tone) but I'd experiment with lowering it a hair, and if that sounds too thin just bump it back up.

It's cool you decided to work through the old songs. The lyrics are good
Click to expand...

Good ears..I struggled with the treble and presence on the sims. Went back and forth a bunch. I have a hard time with it, and it sounds good to me with more or with less up top.

Snare is not EQ'd other than HP around 90Hz. Its a bit cracky to me.

Thanks Nola
 
Good tune, Taras. Feel like I've heard this before. :)
I'd like to hear just a bit more kick. I like the clean guitar. The distorted ones are a bit fizzy, but listenable. The bass is pretty nondescript, which is fairly normal for the genre. Pulling a bit of 300Hz out of the guitars might give it more balls.
You've got just a bit of mud going on (which the 300Hz cut might just help as well). Did you get some monitors? Seems like you're missing a few things you normally catch. (normal when you're getting used to new equipment).
Solid mix. Just a few minor tweaks.
 
BroKen_H said:
Good tune, Taras. Feel like I've heard this before. :)
I'd like to hear just a bit more kick. I like the clean guitar. The distorted ones are a bit fizzy, but listenable. The bass is pretty nondescript, which is fairly normal for the genre. Pulling a bit of 300Hz out of the guitars might give it more balls.
You've got just a bit of mud going on (which the 300Hz cut might just help as well). Did you get some monitors? Seems like you're missing a few things you normally catch. (normal when you're getting used to new equipment).
Solid mix. Just a few minor tweaks.
Click to expand...

You probably have, it's pretty old and I posted an older attempt a year or so ago.

There was huge buildup at 140 on the guitars, so maybe it's 280 youre hearing on them? Shouldn't be mud on the guitars though. Bass, possibly. I didn't do much beside a big mid cut and HP/LP on it.
 
No, I mean pulling 300 out of the guitars (if it doesn't HURT their sound) would make room for some of the bass' character to come through, not that the guitars are 300 heavy...sorry, I'm not real clear sometimes. :)
 
The lead vocal sounds a bit dry to me. Personal preference - the wide-spread cymbal crashes are too wide. I pan my drums as if I was listeninig to the band playing in front of me - the drummer's in the center, not spread wide.
 
A couple of things...more about the production than mixing....

The transition at 0:43....it's kinda off, IMO. You stop on 2, and I think it would sound better if you complete the measure and stopped on 4....and, let the guitar strum ring out more, maybe even let it go into feedback that ramps up in level before the uptempo section kicks in.

The drum fill at 1:50 sounds to me totally out of time and messy, like you missed a couple of hits or just stumbled in and out of it.
I think it should be a bit more powerful and rhythmically tight & flowing with the beat.

During the uptempo/loud sections...the wall of guitars seems to fight with the vocals, like who is going to be louder and more intense. Maybe break it up some with the guitars, do some contrast...let the vocals have the center spot.
Also not sure I like the echo tails where you call out the words.

The ending dies off in an uninteresting way.

Otherwise I think you have a decent song there.
 
mjbphotos said:
The lead vocal sounds a bit dry to me. Personal preference - the wide-spread cymbal crashes are too wide. I pan my drums as if I was listeninig to the band playing in front of me - the drummer's in the center, not spread wide.
Click to expand...

That's not a logical approach for recording, though I get your point. The bass isn't coming from the left or right, is it? As well, one guitar isn't completely to a side either. Recording has different rules.

Anyhow, I didn't widen any cymbals or the master bus, and they are no further out than anyone who uses Superior Drummer. I kept them panned as the stock setting. I'm happy with their placement. Thanks for the listen though.
 
miroslav said:
The drum fill at 1:50 sounds to me totally out of time and messy, like you missed a couple of hits or just stumbled in and out of it.
Click to expand...

Nah, it's def in time. Spent a lot of time on that one. Did it to the click. Sometimes we're expecting a particular fill something different catches us off guard. There's some toms hitting where you might expect snares...but the whole fill stays in time. Tom clarity was a problem for me. They're too dense and muddy.
 
andrushkiwt said:
Nah, it's def in time. Spent a lot of time on that one. Did it to the click. Sometimes we're expecting a particular fill something different catches us off guard. There's some toms hitting where you might expect snares...but the whole fill stays in time. Tom clarity was a problem for me. They're too dense and muddy.
Click to expand...

It's not about it being out of time...it sounds fumbled even if in time, like a dropped ball.
That fact that it fits the time, doesn't always mean that it fits the groove.


andrushkiwt said:
If you mean the stumbling off, then sure. If you mean the alternate chorus, then I'd disagree. And Thanks, appreciated.
Click to expand...

No...I mean after all that uptempo, full-tilt stuff....the ending just drops off like it wasn't intentional...like someone walked into the room and you stopped playing.
I'm saying even with a fade-out ending, there can be a certain flow to it, again, that works with the groove.

Hey...just the way I heard it, and those things jumped out at me on initial listen. I didn't analyze it over and over...it was just the feel I got from those things.
You can ignore everything I said if you disagree....no problem.
 
I really like it! You've done it again. I really like the way the vocal sits in the mix - I don't know how you did it, exactly, because I can't get mine to sit like that. Perhaps I'm not compressing hard enough....not sure...but your vocals and singing are lot more dynamic than mine. But anyway, I really like the lyrics and as always you manage to have a strong hook. I love a hook - every song needs a hook or I'm not going to listen again. Perhaps I'm just listening to the song as a whole because I'm not hearing all the things that some of the others are saying or are feeling. But it "feels" right to me. Good job.
 
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