Which mic vs mic technique....

[Randy5235]

I see lots of people asking which mic for ...... Maybe we should be asking which mic technique. seriously some very good records (cd's etc ) have been made using some pretty crappy mic's I believe that you can get a pretty usable sound out of almost any mic with PROPER placement ..admitted some mic's do flatter some applications more than others. I think we would all be best served by learning to use the *crappy* mic's we have to the best of their potential. sorry just a rant. ( i don't claim to know how to use my mic's properly wish i did) Randy5235

 

[Harvey Gerst]

You'll hear it said very often by older recording engineers:

"Mic placement is usually more important than mic selection."

 

[crazydoc]

Look around "Microphone University" on this site for info on mic placement.

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/eng_pub/

 

[Randy5235]

that is a great link!!! thanks I suggest EVERYONE check that link out its a great starting point for ALOT of different instruments. And Harvey I just got my car fixed so i will probably be calling you in the next week or so.

 

[Randy5235]

sorry double post

 

[Randy5235]

kinda dissapointed at the lack of responses this thread has gotten. I too am a gear slut.I too would love to own the entire blue collection and neve pre's as I could fit in a single room whatever ...... but seriously I believe *i hope at some point to be able to prove it * that you *could* record an amazing sounding album with nothing but cheap mics if the technique were good. I guess i'm just looking for some good conversation regarding why so many of us seem to think that in order to get that (fill in the blank) sound we need to have a (fill in the blank again with mic/mic pre/console/compressor/etc ad nauseum) maybe I need to be reading these threads less and experimenting more...


sorry folks just having one of those days

 

[Armistice]

Hi Randy, I'd tend to agree with you on this one - I know that I have some gear which falls fairly and squarely into the middle range as defined on this board, and I struggle to get a decent sound at times - I've posted quite a few posts here saying "Is it just me....." listing the equipment I'm using, to be told by people, that there's nothing wrong with the gear... thus, it must just be me - and the only real variable is the way I position the mic - after all, I'm pretty sure I'm plugging the damn thing in properly and setting the preamp up OK!

I'll get there in the end, I'm sure - haven't looked at that link in the post a couple up yet, but I will, I'm sure it will add to my collection of useful info about mic placement - the sound I'm getting (acoustic guitar) is definitely improving with each thing I read and each experiment I try.

The thing that strikes me about the whole process is that, although it's all been really helpful, you can't really describe the sonic properties of the sound source, the guitar itself, as it relates to recording - I just have to take the principles described and work with them. I'm sure many people out there could take my guitar and equipment and quickly get a decent sound for me, just by listening to the guitar and checking out the recording space, but unfortunately that's not possible, so I blunder on...

One day!

Cheers

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

An SM57 is a "cheap mic" -- and you could, conceivably, record an album with only that....!

 

[Randy5235]

blue bear my point exactly we have all bought into this i gotta have this or that concept. i have 6 mic's - 3 condensers and 3 dynamic's. i SHOULD be able to get a decent sound out of them when i don't I realize that i'm doing something wrong . I used to blame my gear but thatis such a cop out. it goes back to the whole crappy guitar so i sound bad (till someone that can really play walks up and makes it sound good) concept. just my rant for the day and something for ALL of us to think about. am I getting the most from the gear I have?? if so then its time to buy more gear. But i dare say most of us (me certainly not) are not even close.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

...getting the most from the gear I have...

Yes - people would do well to remember this before their next gear purchase!

"Is that toob mic pre *really* going to 'warm' my sound up? Or did I just record it wrong in the first place?!?!"

 

[Han]

Mmmm......interesting thread. But you guys should record an acoustic instrument like a tenor sax or violin with an SM57 and with a Neumann U67.

And tell me what sound you like more.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Han.......

You totally missed the point....

And I've heard a piano recording done with a '57 that was stunning.......

 

[Han]

It would have sound more stunning with an M49 my friend.

I have one 57 and only use it for talkback mic.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

I have one 57 and only use it for talkback mic.

Then you're missing out, friend - it has been, and remains, a staple for rock guitar recording.

 

[Han]

Yeah buddy, a matter of taste like always.

When I record a (grand) piano I try to make it sound like the piano itself and you'll need a really good condenser for that.

A piano recording can be a PITA. For rock bands some sampled piano can be the best option.

For jazz I prefer a real piano and for the Chopin Impromptu stuff.......
oh my gawd, don't even try to mention an SM57 with these guys!

 

[tmix]

Not only mic placement ,but frequency

I agree that mic placement is better than half the success of a good sound.
I am also learning that getting a great sound is only a small part of getting a good mix. I have spent considerable time getting absolutely wonderful authentic sounds recorded only for it to sound like mushy warm crap in the mix. With only 3 or 4 instruments it is'nt a problem, but after 5 or 10 it is a night mare.
I am painfully learning how to carve space in the mix for things, and it is slow going.

 

[Track Rat]

Han, I believe the entire point of this particular thread is to learn to use WHAT YOU HAVE, not what you wish you had. I'd love to pull out the Elam-251's next time I do vocals but unfortunately I don't have any.

 

[Han]

Han, I believe the entire point of this particular thread is to learn to use WHAT YOU HAVE, not what you wish you had. I'd love to pull out the Elam-251's next time I do vocals but unfortunately I don't have any.

You certainly have a point. When I started recording many years ago I had only one MD421 and a Tascam 3440 with a Teac 2A 6 in 4 out board.

I've done some pretty good sounding recordings with that setup after I'd learned how to use it.

In the mid 90's I recorded a CD with a great jazz band, really great players. I only had a number of dynamic mics like the 421's, a couple of beyers, two MD441, which I used for recording mallets and the condensers I had were two C1000's

The board was a small Seck 1882 (18 in 8 out) and the recorder was a Tascam MSR. The recording is an "all at once", a "one taker". All musicians in one small room.

The CD got CD of the month in a Hi Fi Audio magazine and got a 10 for sound quality, which I'm proud of.

You can hear a fragment of the CD on my website. The band is "The Troupe" and it's a fragment of "Wannabe Gonnabe".

Later I bought a hi end board, two inch machines and hi end mics which make life easier, but sound quality is not only a matter of good gear.

It still amazes me how good an inexpensive peace of gear can sound if you know how to use it and for what.

A $79 dynamic can give you the sound you're after while a $4000 Neumann will not, but a clarinet will sound beautiful with the Neumann.

I've heard a great sounding grand piano which was recorded with two Radio Shack PZM's

I guess that's what this threat is about.

 

[cavedog101]

Han...for what you seem to consider 'crappy' or lower-end equipment, I gotta say the MD421 and MD441 mics are some of the cleanest and clearest in the world...still quite high-end for me as far as a dynamic mic goes....and the seck is quite a clear mixer...the tascam a very decent quality recorder......hell you shoulda been able to record some thing quite decent with that "lowend' gear....

The point here I would think, is to make an effort to learn the basics of recording arts with whatever gear you're able to get started with before pouring yor paycheck into a bunch of over-hyped over-advertised 'solutions' to getting a good sound.
Your ears are your best piece of gear and properly connected to your brain, will allow you to produce many sounds that are accurate and complimentary to your goals.

It doesnt take a bunch of gear to make good recordings....it does take a LOT of time,patience,study,and training.

 

[crazydoc]

maybe I need to be reading these threads less and experimenting more...

Exactly. The greatest gear in the world, in almost any endeavor, is no substitute for ability; and the way to be able, for most of us, is by doing and doing and doing...