What's going on in the Mp3 clinic?

dobro said:
Yeah, but in that case the 15 pages is all about the drama, not about the mix.
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True, but it ends up diverting the whole site to that one thread, like people gathering around to watch a train wreck. Nobody sees anything else.
 
RAMI said:
I might sometimes be guilty of that, but not because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Many times, if I like the song so much that it over-rides any mix flaws, I'll just say that I love it...because I do.

I've always wanted to so this, but never had the guts to try and fool people that I consider friends. But I'd love to put up a less popular, but still great Alice Cooper tune from 1973 (or whatever, just an example), and post it as my own just to read all the mix critiques. My point is that many of my favorite tunes from the past wouldn't stand up to scrutiny in the Clinic. The drums would be considered weak, the singing is slightly off at times, the guitar bends aren't totally in tune, etc......But the tunes are magic. That's how I look at it when I hear a song I love that might have mix flaws.

Listen to this tune, for example. One of my favorite Alice Cooper songs. I can sing enough like him that I might get away posting this as mine. But I'm sure it would be ripped apart, as awesome as it is:

https://youtu.be/q-mgjpU-ETw
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I get that, for sure. I'm not really thinking of times when people don't mention the mix and only mention the music. Rather, I have noted many times that it is actually stated "this mix is really good" in one way or another, and objectively, it really isn't. I suppose this can mean one of several things though. Maybe the listener does really think it sounds good (which is maybe a reason not to sugar coat because other readers could think, "well if you think this sounds good, I am not sure that I trust your environment, your ears or your perception"). Maybe it is contextual as in, "this is a definite improvement over your previous efforts". Maybe they are just trying to be encouraging, without intending to be counterproductive. Maybe it is out of respect for relative experience as in, "I am not going to point out what I think are flaws when I know I can't get to this level myself".

Maybe I am wrong. I am open to that. Maybe nobody blows smoke and everyone just gives their honest assessment based on a combination of their ears, experience and environment. Maybe it is all sincere. I often feel like it is not though, but maybe I am just misinterpreting what I see sometimes.

Anyway...

I totally agree with what you are saying. The song is always more important than the mix, and there have been many times that I think or say, "this song transcends the idea of what constitutes a good or bad mix", and I couldn't care less about any mix flaws. The Alice Cooper track is a good example. Others that I can think of off the top of my head are any Jimi Hendrix mixes and many Soundgarden mixes. Just my opinion, mind you. I am sure other people like and appreciate these mixes, but I think they are terrible. Point is, it doesn't matter that I think of them that way because I love the music anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

It also makes me feel better about my mixes that I think so many professionally released commercial mixes are really not very good.There is hope for all of us :).
 
kindafishy said:
Maybe nobody blows smoke and everyone just gives their honest assessment based on a combination of their ears, experience and environment. Maybe it is all sincere. I often feel like it is not though, but maybe I am just misinterpreting what I see sometimes.
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It's easier to stop second-guessing motivations and just take the comments at face value. That way, over time, you learn how much you can rely on any one person's feedback.

"This person generally knows what they're talking about."

"This person sometimes nails it."

"This person doesn't have a fucking clue."
 
Sadly, I don't have the time to record and put anything up at the minute or spend the time listening through all that I've missed. I enjoy a lot of the music I hear in the Clinic. I even have a folder on my computer that the good ones gets saved into.

I just take all the music at face value and what I enjoy or hear differently, I'll comment on. Even if it's already all been said and the mix has been tweaked, sometimes a song deserves a pat on the back, IMO. If I don't like it or the music isn't to my taste, I leave and say nothing.

:thumbs up:
 
RAMI said:
Exactly. It's not abut needing pats on the back. But when someone says "I don't comment on your songs any more because they're so good", I find that strange. If I take the time to listen to a song that I love, somewhere in that 4 minutes of listening it won't kill me to type "This is really good, man". Unfortunately, there are a couple of people here who I really like and really get along with, but I've stopped listening to their tunes because they never comment on mine. Maybe childish on my part, I don't know, but that's the way it is.

But yeah, on a couple of occasions, I've seen myself and other regulars get almost no response. Meanwhile, some bozo that's posting horrible shit is getting 15 pages of comments only because he's being a jerk about all the criticism he's getting. So I'm like "Fuck. I guess the squeaky wheel really does get the grease. Sometimes it pays to be a moron".
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Yeah, I get that. I didn't think you were after pats on the back and I think you're right about not commenting on some folks because there 'too good' is a bit strange -how's anyone meant to know if nobody says anything?

I've posted on plenty of your threads, with either a 'sounds good' or a 'would this work?' so I ain't saying that. I was thinking more about your last tune say - I saw it, but also saw that you'd stopped responding to the mix comments and figured (perhaps mistakenly) that you had moved on to some new stuff and were ready to let it sink off the front page. If I'd caught it earlier, it had almost no response or I figured you were still working on it, I'd probably have tried to comment. Ah, well - I'll try and get in early for the next one man :)
 
Im one of these relatively new guys.
I know there is a crowd here that have been hanging out for a while and know each other.....at least online in the context of this forum.
Anyway, I'm not in that inner circle.

I have mixed feelings about the clinic, especially having a bunch of strangers tear into your stuff. Also, I am think some nits are based on personal preference, rather than some mix "standard". I mean who determines what a good mix is?

I'm sure there are those who would tear apart any Tom Petty or Black Crows mix. I read earlier about Jimi Hendrix's mixes sucking. Well, if one can tear into jimi, what knd of dogs breakfast they gonna make out of me?
?
I do think honest critique based on the intention to help one improve is a good thing.
people learning can get better.

At the same time, I hear great stuff, both in songwriting and technical execution, sometimes ignored or worse accused of grandstanding.

People can learn tons from that.
Instead of "Great tune, can't find any nits" or telling them it should go into the show off mktg thread, or finding a nit just for the sake of finding a nit, how bout asking more questions.
How did you get that drum sound, what amps did you use to get that tone. etc.

I see some, but not a lot of that. I see more of telling "lesser" artists how to improve.
Those are just some of my monday morning ramblings..only on my second cup of jo.
lol
 
robgreen said:
I've posted on plenty of your threads, with either a 'sounds good' or a 'would this work?'
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You actually took the time to record a part to show me what you meant about a suggestion you made. I'll always remember that and it shows that you're one of the good guys. I have no complaints about you. To be honest, I'm probably not expressing myself well in this thread because, the truth is, I have no complaints about anything. This place is generally great and the only time I say to myself "I've had it with this place" is always because of some outside force or some moron like Paschi, who really pollute the place with their spam disguised as "advice", and it's not even good advice/spam. Like Greg has pointed out, and it's so true, this place is like a menstrual cycle. About once a month, we get a newbie moron having a meltdown, and then it goes back to normal for a couple of weeks.
 
RAMI said:
There are a couple of people in the Clinic who, when I see they posted on my or someone else's tune, I know they're going to "suggest" a change or criticize something, no matter how great the song and mix are. They simply WILL NOT post unless they have a nit at the very least. They might give a compliment, they might say it sounds good, but they HAVE to have at least one thing that they need to change.
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I think that's a fair criticism of me. I've thought that about myself from time to time. I try to always say at least one positive thing, but I always will pick at something. My motives are only to help someone improve. But I can see where it gets grating. I'm going to try to include more positive feedback in the future. RAMI - bust me if I don't. :)
 
TripleM said:
I think that's a fair criticism of me. I've thought that about myself from time to time. I try to always say at least one positive thing, but I always will pick at something. My motives are only to help someone improve. But I can see where it gets grating. I'm going to try to include more positive feedback in the future. RAMI - bust me if I don't. :)
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Actually, you were the furthest from my mind when I typed that. I love your comments and perspective, and I always want to know if there are any pops in my songs. :D
 
kindafishy said:
Jimi Hendrix mixes.
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I'm with you there. "All along the Watchtower" came on the radio this morning and in terms of instrumental balance, the Clinic would've ripped it apart. The drums were nowhere - literally nowhere. It sounded fucking great.
 
Bubba po said:
I'm with you there. "All along the Watchtower" came on the radio this morning and in terms of instrumental balance, the Clinic would've ripped it apart. The drums were nowhere - literally nowhere. It sounded fucking great.
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I love that recording! my favorite part is when the slide guitar comes in right before the wha wha guitar ride. it sounds so cool.

As far as hendrix mixes go I think the "Are you experianced" album and Axis bold as love have some good mixes. "if 6 was 9" is a cool mix...."Red House" is a great mix. "the wind cries mary" and "little wing are good mixes too.
electric ladyland was not mixed as well IMO.
But...all those mixes have been listened to and used in soundtracks, and 60s documentaries for decades and "better" mixes would sound way out of whack.
 
Day job.... grr... and it's winter here... last thing I've felt like doing when I get home from work after a hard day oppressing the workers and stealing their money is singing... although I have tracks lined up waiting to go. Must. Try. Harder....
 
I've been working hard on some country songs...some cool ones in my opinion. I have a collaboration with jordo on percussion and miroslav on steel guitar, that I think is very cool, in the can. I haven't been able to get that finished up because I have a steel player that is going to play on some songs and I'm desaparately trying to get as many songs recorded as possible (just bass, drums, acoustic guitar, and vocals) so I won't be wasting his time. I'm doing it all...drums...bass...guitar...vocals ... and engineering)
the drums are the hardest because I suck at drums and have to edit almost every single hit. that takes FOREVER. But, the drum tracks are sounding pretty damn good so far. As you guys already know, it's hard doing it all by yourself but it's also fun and really satisfying when it sound good.
in other words it's a tough row to hoe, but worth it!

I said all that to say this...
I Agee with Armistice after working all day it's hard to muster the energy
 
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Bubba po said:
I'm with you there. "All along the Watchtower" came on the radio this morning and in terms of instrumental balance, the Clinic would've ripped it apart. The drums were nowhere - literally nowhere. It sounded fucking great.
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Over at SOS, the wisest comments are along the lines of 'your mix is respectable and can't be faulted, but it's a bit by-the-numbers and vanilla. If you want a mix to shine, you have to do something unusual with it.'
 
jimistone said:
electric ladyland was not mixed as well IMO.
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What????? Electric ladyland was one of the finest rock albums of all time. (To me.) I mean how cool is it to pan a kick as part of an intro? The other stuff you mentioned was great also.

Along with,
Live at leeds
Tommy
Quadrophenia
Who's next
and most anything done by the Who
Along with,
Allman Brothers fillmore east
Deep Purple made in Japan, and most all early purple
Along with, all Angels while Doc Neeson was with the band including the double live disc
All Black Crows
Almost all Tom Petty

This is all good stuff to me in terms of music, and mix.

But to me, electric ladyland is fine work.
 
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