What's better, Outboard effects or the digital plugings?
- Thread starter izman
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Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Yes. (10 characters)
Seriously though - There's no possible way to answer that question.
Seriously though - There's no possible way to answer that question.
kcearl
I see deaf people
I run DSP cards...3 UADs, and a TC powercore with extra plugins
Fairchild 670
1176LN
Precision desser
Precision enhancer
Pultec Pro
Moogfilter
Sonnox EQ
Master X5
along with a couple of plugs and the essentials that come with these cards I dont use anything else...if your 1000 quid can extend to some UAD cards Id highly recommend them..I only buy "cheap" outboard stuff to muck around with..I am slowly filling a cupboard
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Waves are nothing special. If you can't get 99% "there" using freeware plugs, it isn't the plugins' fault.
I'm assuming the "analog" referring to plugins was a typo, as there's no such thing as an analog plugin... Unless you're referring to analog emulation - at that point, it's just different flavors of what you're looking for.
Me? When it comes down to it, I'm an analog guy. But there's 'analog' and there's analog and I prefer the latter. If the latter isn't available, I have no particular issues using plugs. Native, freeware (honestly, some of the greatest plugs I've ever used are freeware), UAD (still have, don't use very often but they're there when you need 'em) or otherwise.
In any case, as with any chain, the most important analog gear is the front end. $1,000 isn't going to score much - But it'll certainly grab a couple nice preamps. That's the smart money.
themdla
New member
kcearl
I see deaf people
I dont have Waves..I cant afford or need waves...
I wouldnt even imagine the UAD or TC plugs are better sounding than the regular VST ones either..
they just dont run down my PCs CPU and they are very good $$ value, thats why I recommend them, and because they are all i use I am getting to know them very well..
I think knowing how to use them is far more important than what brand they are...try to make sure you have something to cover any need..Id like a better saturator...that'll be my next purchase
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
There are so many at this point... True's P-Solo, Grace Design's m101, FMR's RNP, that Pre-73 thing (Golden? Can't remember - Nice piece though). That said, there are some really crappy sounding preamps out there also...which preamps are you referring to?? just curious
I totally agree with you on use of what u have. i believe if you get to no your equipments better you will gain exprience at using them however much they are crap compared to others
guitar zero
c = b#
I wish someone had told me when I was first starting to get GOOD plugs first, before buying analog gear. To get the analog gear it would take you to match what you can accomplish with $1000 worth of plugs would take 20 or 30 times that much. Not to mention multiple instances of the same plugs in a mix with total recall vs. analog which gets you one or two channels at a time, and the hassle of recall sheets.
Read up on freebie plugs. There are LOTS of really good ones. Then spend the rest to round out your arsenal.
You'll need a good compressor or two, good EQ, good echo/delay, reverb, limiter, then maybe a saturation plug and distortion(good kind) plug. You'll get way better at mixing, way faster this way.
Once you have those figured out, then you can contemplate a good hardware compressor for the mix buss, and add other elements as you can afford.
Read up on freebie plugs. There are LOTS of really good ones. Then spend the rest to round out your arsenal.
You'll need a good compressor or two, good EQ, good echo/delay, reverb, limiter, then maybe a saturation plug and distortion(good kind) plug. You'll get way better at mixing, way faster this way.
Once you have those figured out, then you can contemplate a good hardware compressor for the mix buss, and add other elements as you can afford.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Yeah...but that makes the assumption that a $99 soft version of a $5k hardware compressor (or whatever) is the same thing, and that it sounds as good and does everything like the hardware.
Don't let the plug-in GUI fool you just 'cuz it "looks" the same as the faceplate on the hardware version.
There are good plugs...but they're not always a direct replacement for the hardware they were modeled after. If they were...all the hardware manufacturers would go out of business.
guitar zero
c = b#
I'm in no way saying that plugs are better than hardware, or even as good. What I'm saying is that for $1000 he can get really good sounding plugs and use multiple instances of comps, EQs, echoes, verbs, saturation, etc. on his mixes Vs. one $1000 box which he will be able to use on one stereo channel for one effect. It's no contest. Plus, how many $1000 boxes are there out there that are going to wow you? What I'm saying is that unless you have about $50k laying around to invest in good hardware, start with plugs. You'll get way further, way faster. I promise.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Yeah...but that WAS the question the OP asked..."which is better?" (not which is cheaper)...
...so in that regard I guess we are in agreement.
It's too late...I'm already in pretty deep to turn around and go the plug-in way.
Don't get me wrong...I use plug-ins when I do my basic edits, comps and spot-fixes in the DAW...but when I mix, it all comes out and is done OTB, with analog console and outboard hardware.
But I've been building and adding to my studio for a long time. I agree, it would not be easy to drop that much $$$ in one shot.
Yeah...but that WAS the question the OP asked..."which is better?" (not which is cheaper)...
...so in that regard I guess we are in agreement.
Agreed!
guitar zero
c = b#
This is what I was replying to. Only 1000 to spend, go plug-ins for sure.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
OK...fair enough.
I was replying more specifically to the thread title.
Look....I can appreciate someone's budget driving their purchasing decisions...but the straight up reality is that if you take a software plug that is modeled after a given piece of a hardware...the hardware will probably be better 9-out-10 times.
So if you have a decent piece (or pieces) of hardware...trust me, it ain't going to be just sitting around your studio "wasting variable space".
It's no different with mics.
You can probably *get by* with 3-4 inexpensive ones...but lots of studio cats have dozens (and not all inexpensive ones, either).
I guess the point I'm trying to make is don’t be too quick to talk yourself out of one perspective and into another…purely because budget.
Though of course, in the end you have to accept the reality of your budget, and make do.
Sometimes it’s not a bad idea to work toward a goal and buy discreetly and wisely, though it will take time if your budget is limited.
Lots of guys on home-rec forum, want to buy EVERYTHING, in a hurry, with a small budget...and so they convince themselves that whatever they can afford is what they really need, and anything they can't afford...well, that stuff they don’t really need.
Farview
Well-known member
First off, most hardware effects processors are digital, so the same thing is happening inside them as would happen in a plugin in your DAW. It's just algorythms bouncing around a processor. Most hardware companies make plugins using the same algorythms.
So the only things we're talking about that could be that different are compressors, gates and things that actually emulate hardware.
For the most part, you can make just about any plugin compressor compress the signal. It will just do it in a very literal way. No mojo. (I'm not talking about hardware emulations here)
One of the cool things about plugins is that you can automate them, so the settings can change as the song progresses.
Hardware emulations are really cool, but they will not sound exactly like the specific piece of hardware they are emulating for a couple reasons:
1. They use actual modelling, meaning they 'build' the unit out of models of all the electronic parts in the real unit. This gives you an idealized version that will not necessarily behave like any one real world unit. Of course, no two analog units will behave the exact same way either, so it is a moot point.
2. They model the behavior of a few actual units and average them to get the plugin. It still is sort of idealized and doesn't do exactly what any one real unit would. But if the real units all did exactly the same thing, you wouldn't have to sample a bunch of them.
The main cool thing about plugins is: am 1176 compressor cost about $1500 and it is one channel. A plugin emulation of it will do the same type of thing and you can put it on as many channels as you want, even stereo channels, until your computer chokes. All for significantly less than $1500.
If you are using a DAW, hardware tends to be a pain in the butt. In order to use it, you need more i/o and possibly a mixer to route everything. Plus all the cable, patchbays, etc...
So the only things we're talking about that could be that different are compressors, gates and things that actually emulate hardware.
For the most part, you can make just about any plugin compressor compress the signal. It will just do it in a very literal way. No mojo. (I'm not talking about hardware emulations here)
One of the cool things about plugins is that you can automate them, so the settings can change as the song progresses.
Hardware emulations are really cool, but they will not sound exactly like the specific piece of hardware they are emulating for a couple reasons:
1. They use actual modelling, meaning they 'build' the unit out of models of all the electronic parts in the real unit. This gives you an idealized version that will not necessarily behave like any one real world unit. Of course, no two analog units will behave the exact same way either, so it is a moot point.
2. They model the behavior of a few actual units and average them to get the plugin. It still is sort of idealized and doesn't do exactly what any one real unit would. But if the real units all did exactly the same thing, you wouldn't have to sample a bunch of them.
The main cool thing about plugins is: am 1176 compressor cost about $1500 and it is one channel. A plugin emulation of it will do the same type of thing and you can put it on as many channels as you want, even stereo channels, until your computer chokes. All for significantly less than $1500.
If you are using a DAW, hardware tends to be a pain in the butt. In order to use it, you need more i/o and possibly a mixer to route everything. Plus all the cable, patchbays, etc...