Vocals sound muffled in booth

[miroslav]

Im asking for advice on treating it,not recommendations on where I should record.

OK...then re-read your thread...you've already gotten those recommendations, otherwise, try the Studio Building forum.
You're complaint was about muffled vocals...there's no magic solution that fixes that and still keeps you in the foam booth.
Make your own choices.

Oh...and I never said where you should record (only that more open spaces are better)...I mainly said where you shouldn't --- in that foam coffin where everything will sound dead.

 

[grimtraveller]

Like I said I use the vocal booth as to not disturb my family. So obviously I want to keep the booth. Im asking for advice on treating it,not recommendations on where I should record.

It's become a "chasing your tail" scenario. Your foam booth muffles your sound. That is the problem. By putting in CDs and other surfaces that are reflective, you defeat the object of having the booth. You may as well be in a larger room. As you're determined to keep the booth no matter what, there isn't really much that anyone can say that doesn't fall in with the prime directive of keeping the booth. Even if peoples' experiences militate against this.
I understand the constraints of not wanting to disturb your family, especially at sensitive times {I find myself in the same situation at times}. But the misconception is that the foam is somehow preventing much of the sound from coming out. So there's actually two issues running at cross purposes, that of not disturbing others and that of the actual perceived solution being a problem in itself.....it's a chasing your tail situation where certain compromises have to be made. In terms of sound isolation, that's a whole other ball game. None of this is insurmountable, but as others keep pointing out, eventually one problem and it's solution seems to lead to another and another.....

 

[Shadow_7]

Rigid fiberglass > Foam. Hell, carpet is probably better than foam. Or those bathroom mats that you can get at the dollar store or the hundreds of liquidation sales (in this economy) for dirt cheap. I saw a youtube vid with a guy who carpeted his booth with bathroom mats. Probably better than your current configuration and the corners were taken care of too.

If you don't need the lows, you can always filter them out. More ideal for girly voices. Or girls. But always an option. But they will influence to some degree that rest of the content. Without a sample, it'd be hard to see what you're calling muffled. There's no way for us to be on the same page without a sample. EQ and reverb are your only bets without space modification.

And just so you know, air pressure, temperature, humidity and other things affect how sound travels. That coffin will reach body temperature and stay there often. Plus high humidity (bad for gear / but good for mold). In colder climates sound travels much further (less muffled). Every little thing needs to be just right for the ideal space. And you have at least half a dozen things that are not right, and probably half of those that will NEVER be right in that space.

 

[Supercreep]

Dude - it's a closet. There isn't enough treatment in the world to make it not sound like a closet. OP, I can dig why you want the foam in there, it looks neat and tidy. I bet a chick that didn't know about acoustics would totally blow you in there - especially with the blacklight and some kind of velvet Dr. Dre poster with a pot leaf on it.

Maybe you could try a dynamic mic like an SM-7 or an RE-20. Especially the RE-20, which has very little proximity effect. Either mic you can get right up on, and both have wonderful condenser-like clarity. The cool thing about them is that they pick up very little room sound at all. They require a lot of gain, so make sure the preamp you're using has enough. 60 db should be plenty if you have any volume to your vocals at all.

Also: Using a good dynamic in the studio means that you can record vocals without headphones on.

We're just giving you a hard time, but we're also not lying to you. As Frankenstein would say, FOAM BAD!

 

[RAMI]

....edited.....I was under the influence of acting like an asshole. I apologize to anyone who might have read my post.

 

[Shadow_7]

Just crunching the numbers out loud.

Sound travels roughly 1,100 feet per second +/- 100 feet per second depending on factors (temp / air pressure). Rough guessing it here, but should be within 10% or 20% of the real world numbers.

4' interruption / reflection point. So 4/1100 seconds till sound hits the wall, assuming that it originated from the other wall. So real world-ish (center room) more like 2/1100 Although 4/1100 for the second bounce. Fastest time wise, the corners are different timing / distance wise (aka muddy). a^2+b^2=c^2, or 4^2+4^2=distance^2, or 16+16=distance^2, or distance = 5.65-ish feet aka square root of 32. Corner to corner.

So at what Hz would a full wave (center to peak to center to valley and back to center) be the length of the distance wall to wall? 1100/4 or 1100/2 or 1100/5.65 or 1100/2.825 or 275 Hz or 550 Hz or 195 Hz or 389 Hz. Lowest guy there is 195 Hz, just below one octave below tuning A(220Hz), with A(440Hz) below middle C being tuning A. I hope you don't play Tuba or String Bass. 60Hz which is that audible hum we get from some gear on A/C power is well below that too.

Basically not an ideal space. But we already knew that. What could be done? Seal and pressurize it to change the speed of sound? Just how long until your client suffocates though? Heat the space to a couple hundred F as in Fahrenheit (or freeze it to 0 kelvin)? Likely well beyond the specs of the gear, and probably not much better for the client either. Without changing the space, you pretty much need to throw away all frequencies below 200Hz. Which leaves what? Tap dancers and castanet players to record in your space? Or Fran Drescher.

Not that you can't record those lower frequencies (which aren't all that low) in that space. But it's going to sound off to the performer. Who might have to force out what might otherwise come naturally in a different space. Or be so alienated from what they're used to, to not even be able to perform at all. I had an experience like that once. Karaoke night at a club and the monitors were in phase reversal of the mic. I could hear me coming out of the bad sounding speakers, but I couldn't hear me coming out of my own mouth. Freaky weird that first time out. And that was without the aid of libations.

 

[miroslav]

Just crunching the numbers out loud.

Sound travels roughly 1,100 feet per second +/- 100 feet per second depending on factors (temp / air pressure). Rough guessing it here, but should be within 10% or 20% of the real world numbers.

4' interruption / reflection point. So 4/1100 seconds till sound hits the wall, assuming that it originated from the other wall. So real world-ish (center room) more like 2/1100 Although 4/1100 for the second bounce. Fastest time wise, the corners are different timing / distance wise (aka muddy). a^2+b^2=c^2, or 4^2+4^2=distance^2, or 16+16=distance^2, or distance = 5.65-ish feet aka square root of 32. Corner to corner.

So at what Hz would a full wave (center to peak to center to valley and back to center) be the length of the distance wall to wall? 1100/4 or 1100/2 or 1100/5.65 or 1100/2.825 or 275 Hz or 550 Hz or 195 Hz or 389 Hz. Lowest guy there is 195 Hz, just below one octave below tuning A(220Hz), with A(440Hz) below middle C being tuning A. I hope you don't play Tuba or String Bass. 60Hz which is that audible hum we get from some gear on A/C power is well below that too.

Basically not an ideal space. But we already knew that. What could be done? Seal and pressurize it to change the speed of sound? Just how long until your client suffocates though? Heat the space to a couple hundred F as in Fahrenheit (or freeze it to 0 kelvin)? Likely well beyond the specs of the gear, and probably not much better for the client either. Without changing the space, you pretty much need to throw away all frequencies below 200Hz. Which leaves what? Tap dancers and castanet players to record in your space? Or Fran Drescher.

Not that you can't record those lower frequencies (which aren't all that low) in that space. But it's going to sound off to the performer. Who might have to force out what might otherwise come naturally in a different space. Or be so alienated from what they're used to, to not even be able to perform at all. I had an experience like that once. Karaoke night at a club and the monitors were in phase reversal of the mic. I could hear me coming out of the bad sounding speakers, but I couldn't hear me coming out of my own mouth. Freaky weird that first time out. And that was without the aid of libations.

To summerize....

Recording in a small foam booth usually sounds crappy.

 

[Lt. Bob]

It's become a "chasing your tail" scenario. Your foam booth muffles your sound. That is the problem. By putting in CDs and other surfaces that are reflective, you defeat the object of having the booth.

Not really because in his case the object of the booth isn't to provide a great sounding area to sing in. It's simply to make things less loud outside of his recording area.

And yes .... it's absolutely true that what he has is NOT an isolation booth however ...... everyone's talking like the sound will get out just as loud as if there was no booth at all and there's no way that's true.
Hell ..... in my music room the difference between disturbing my wife in the next room is not bothering her is by simply closing the door.
You're not gonna convince me that this guys' booth doesn't pad the volume a bit.
Certainly not anything even remotely approaching sound proof but it's absolutely gonna cut down at least a little bit on what gets to his family.

 

[miroslav]

It does shave off the volume, that's for sure...but he wasn't really complaining about that, he's asking how to fix his muffled vocals.

 

[Lt. Bob]

It does shave off the volume, that's for sure...but he wasn't really complaining about that, he's asking how to fix his muffled vocals.

right, I understand that.
But a lot of the responses seem to be thinking his intent for the booth is the mistaken idea that it's meant to be a better space.

I was just pointing out that his purpose is to lower sound levels and now he'd like to make it suck the least possible amount given that he's commited to using it for the other volume reason.

 

[miroslav]

...a lot of the responses seem to be thinking his intent for the booth is the mistaken idea that it's meant to be a better space.

Oh...

Well I didn't really see it that way (maybe others did).

I knew he mainly had a volume issue, and THAT is why he ended up in the booth...but judging by the "quality" and size of the booth build, I also don't think he really understood the impact it would have on sound quality, as he is now looking for an after-the-fact fix.

I'm sure he thinks some of us are just being "difficult" (which we are not) by continuing to tell him that the small foam booth is never going to work well...and he seems to be stuck on a lot of "what if I hang a ______ or add a _____" ideas, and apparently not liking the negative responses to those ideas (which is why RAMI was spot on about the denial).

But hey...we've ALL been there at one time or another, trying out something that just didn't work well, and then being too stubborn or unrealistic to accept the fact that we needed to take a different approach rather than looking for ways to band-aid the one we were using.

I know he probably won't even like this idea either...
If you really must go to great lengths to record silently because of family/neighbors...then I would build that booth out to a much bigger size (it looks like you have the space) and then add real isolation treatment AND also some acoustic treatment which would kill two birds with one stone....sound control and no more muffled vocals.
Just sayin'.......

 

[grimtraveller]

Not really because in his case the object of the booth isn't to provide a great sounding area to sing in. It's simply to make things less loud outside of his recording area.


You're not gonna convince me that this guys' booth doesn't pad the volume a bit.
Certainly not anything even remotely approaching sound proof but it's absolutely gonna cut down at least a little bit on what gets to his family.

No dispute there, you could see by the photo that he has a door to the booth and I know from experience at home that shutting the door makes a difference. Sometimes when my friends are practicing drums before a session, I'll go out the room, shut the door and listen. And it does cut down some of the noise. But only some of it ! The neighbours know there's drums here ! And the other day, my son told me he could hear them from the car park !
I thought the OP did have more than slight concerns about the sound quality though because that's really what the thread was meant to be about. It just sort of took on other elements that were very much related.

 

[Shadow_7]

I still think that carpet or other more rigid material will cut down the sound MORE than what he has. With the same or less bulk. If foam wasn't reflective to some degree, why bother shaping it into triangles and pyramids and stuff. It looks like his floor treatment is well, a thin blanket. If it's a two story building or three, that's not going to do much for the neighboring floors. And if foam is reflective, he has ALL of them broadsided to point UP. Hopefully it's a flat or something. aka single floor dwelling. And/or the attic is insulated and not some big resonance chamber. And/or the duct work.

One thought, if you lay on the floor (probably have to cross your legs on / near the wall for that) and sing or whatever sound source you're using towards the ceiling, does it sound LESS muffled? 6' (ceiling) would be 1100/6 aka 183Hz. Not much better for that 20Hz - 200Hz range, but should in theory be better. If only because you gain about 100Hz of functional bandwidth. Reflections can be the phase reversal of the source sound and can quite literally cancel out the source sound, aka muffled, aka standing wave. Not that many / if any of us have the close to 60' (20 yards) of wall to wall space needed for a clean 20Hz.

 

[CFox]

Use reflective foam..
OR
sound proof the outside of your booth.
OR
get over your obsession to sit in a cosy self contained space where you are safe from monster attack as I suspect that is your chief concern.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I still think that carpet or other more rigid material will cut down the sound MORE than what he has. With the same or less bulk. If foam wasn't reflective to some degree, why bother shaping it into triangles and pyramids and stuff. It looks like his floor treatment is well, a thin blanket. If it's a two story building or three, that's not going to do much for the neighboring floors. And if foam is reflective, he has ALL of them broadsided to point UP. Hopefully it's a flat or something. aka single floor dwelling. And/or the attic is insulated and not some big resonance chamber. And/or the duct work.

One thought, if you lay on the floor (probably have to cross your legs on / near the wall for that) and sing or whatever sound source you're using towards the ceiling, does it sound LESS muffled? 6' (ceiling) would be 1100/6 aka 183Hz. Not much better for that 20Hz - 200Hz range, but should in theory be better. If only because you gain about 100Hz of functional bandwidth. Reflections can be the phase reversal of the source sound and can quite literally cancel out the source sound, aka muffled, aka standing wave. Not that many / if any of us have the close to 60' (20 yards) of wall to wall space needed for a clean 20Hz.

I agree carpet would do a better job.

 

[bdenton]

Now that we are finally back to the fact that the guys has a 4' x 4' x 6.5' booth that is covered with foam on the inside...

That is what you have. That is all you have.

So perhaps more here could do as a few here seem to be trying to do and offer suggestions as to how make what he has better. I have nothing to offer on the subject, but I know some here do...

 

[RAMI]

Now that we are finally back to the fact that the guys has a 4' x 4' x 6.5' booth that is covered with foam on the inside...

That is what you have. That is all you have.

So perhaps more here could do as a few here seem to be trying to do and offer suggestions as to how make what he has better. I have nothing to offer on the subject, but I know some here do...

Maybe there is nothing to offer other than what people have been trying to offer.

I have a car, but it doesn't have tires. I don't want tires. How come nobody can give me suggestions to get it rolling, other than telling me I need tires? Why can't anyone help me???? It can't be because there is no other solution than to get tires!!!!

 

[moresound]

....edited.....I was under the influence of acting like an asshole. I apologize to anyone who might have read my post.

!!!

 

[miroslav]

So perhaps more here could do as a few here seem to be trying to do and offer suggestions as to how make what he has better..

I would hang a few more rock star posters on the sides and some egg crates on the ceiling for that cool look...and maybe add a coffee cup holder and a small stool for those longer sessions...

Like...is there some secret that you think people just don't want to share...on how to improve a small foam booth so it doesn't sound like small foam booth?

Now YOU'RE in denial!

The amount of treatment he would need to do to improve the sound would probably require that he rip out all that foam, and then drop some real acoustic treatment in there...but that's ALREADY been suggested to him....

...and he wants to hang CD on the walls...????

 

[Lt. Bob]

...and he wants to hang CD on the walls...????

I believe his thinking is that the CD's would bring back some reflection while keeping the sound deadening properties of the foam.
But what he seems to be missing is that the foam isn't doing anything AT ALL to lower the sound level outside of his recording room.
It's simply the wooden wallls that are doing that. He could rip out all the foam and it wouldn't be any louder outside because it's the mass of the walls that is doing whatever muting there is.