Virtual guitar amps/analog guitar amps

Jay Tee 4303 said:
...note the difference between great guitar sound...and commercially successful band music.
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Oh....so this is what you're really chasing after.
OK...I get it...you want that repeatable, homogenized, pasteurized, with Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, guitar-sound-in-a-can….so that you can open the can and pour it out when needed, the exact same way every session.

:yawn:

Yeah....use the Line out and/or some sims.....and you'll get exactly what you want.
 
miroslav said:
Oh....so this is what you're really chasing after.
OK...I get it...you want that repeatable, homogenized, pasteurized, with Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, guitar-sound-in-a-can….so that you can open the can and pour it out when needed, the exact same way every session.

:yawn:

Yeah....use the Line out and/or some sims.....and you'll get exactly what you want.
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Thank you very very much for your permission to use a well designed, full range cabinet to communicate whatever I feel like saying with as few limitations as possible. Actually, I'm greedier than that. Think line out, my rack, and however much Crown power it takes to drive the best array I can get into that venue, at SPLs up to, but not including 144db. I will never actually use that potential, but I also know it will NEVER limit me.

In return for your kindness, you have MY permission to use a speaker that 'bangers throw out of the trunk and everybody else puts in a soundproof box. Or as many semitrucks of them as you can afford.

See?

I'm not so hard to deal with.

:-)

You're happy, I'm happy.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Um, no. Guitar amps, especially 4x12s, have a narrow output pattern.
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If it's a straight faced closed back then sure, it's going to be fairly narrow. But in a club, there's usually only a narrow amount of space that needs covered, so I worked with it and it always sounded great.

Of course, if it's a slanted open back, then that sound is going to spill everywhere and you won't need to worry about dispersion as much

bouldersoundguy said:
True story: I was mixing in a small "storefront" club with the small stage. This guy has a 100W Marshall full stack on 11 and he gets pissed that I have his guitar in the monitors and his vocal too low to hear.

Drums are the same. If the stage and venue are small there is only so much that can be done by the sound person, however skilled or willing. A piercing piccolo snare hit with full force (or whatever loud thing) will bleed into the vocal mics and drive paying customers out.

Get the right drums for the venue and play at a volume that doesn't screw the rest of the band.
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All those things are the musician's fault. I mean, I said that I just have them raise the volume to keep up with the drummer, not crank it to 11 (if the guy came back to your venue I'd suggest whapping him with a whammy bar and giving him a firm "NO"). As far as the piccolo snare goes, that's not something I can control either. They brought that snare when they knew they were playing a small club, they should've brought something more appropriate or learned how to play their instrument to the venue.

Like you said, get the right drums for the venue and play at a volume that doesn't screw the rest of the band. Nothing I can do if the player doesn't know how to play well.
 
I knew better than to get into this.

What's this whining about 4x4 cabs about? About a million posts ago Jay Tee was asking if 4x4's were so great why aren't they used as studio monitors on the meter bridge or as PA speakers.

They're designed for guitars is why, and it's clear some people have more experience with guitar and guitar sound than others.

Damn this thread is aggravating.
 
FWIW, I drag a 1x12 combo to gigs 99% of the time, and I'm selling my big amps and cabs because in my next endeavor I won't need "show of force" sized gear.

But it's still tube driven, and I still would rather drink a glass of warm sweat than subject my audience to a fucking POS "almost as good as" sim.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Um, no. Guitar amps, especially 4x12s, have a narrow output pattern. I put amps in the PA so everybody gets a balanced mix, and I ask guitarist to pick a volume that's not louder than anyone but him wants to hear, and also isn't louder in the vocal mic than the vocal. It doesn't reflect well on the player or the band or the venue or me if the people in the line of fire get the icepick in the forehead while off to the sides the guitar gets lost in mix.

True story: I was mixing in a small "storefront" club with the small stage. This guy has a 100W Marshall full stack on 11 and he gets pissed that I have his guitar in the monitors and his vocal too low to hear. I did not have his guitar amp mic in the monitors, his vocal mic was getting more of his guitar than his vocal. He had the wrong gear/technique/attitude for the venue. There was nothing anyone but him could do to fix it, and all he did was bitch.

Drums are the same. If the stage and venue are small there is only so much that can be done by the sound person, however skilled or willing. A piercing piccolo snare hit with full force (or whatever loud thing) will bleed into the vocal mics and drive paying customers out. The sound person's job is to prevent that and let the venue do its job of selling drinks. If people wince with every snare hit it's too loud. Get the right drums for the venue and play at a volume that doesn't screw the rest of the band.
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You've got it.

Its about the objective, and the reality you traverse to achieve it. If its time to fill your personal world with the sweet sound of crunch, fill it.

If its time to collaborate with other musical minds, whether for personal joy, or financial compensation or any combination, its about the laws of physics, and how much BS of any kind, including preconceived notions, stand between you and achieving the objective.

If you want to solo, solo.

If you want to collaborate, the sum is greater than individual components.

Its a hard world out there, and in the end, karma is what you make it.
 
Jay Tee 4303 said:
You've got it.

Its about the objective, and the reality you traverse to achieve it. If its time to fill your personal world with the sweet sound of crunch, fill it.

If its time to collaborate with other musical minds, whether for personal joy, or financial compensation or any combination, its about the laws of physics, and how much BS of any kind, including preconceived notions, stand between you and achieving the objective.

If you want to solo, solo.

If you want to collaborate, the sum is greater than individual components.

Its a hard world out there, and in the end, karma is what you make it.
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You just said a lot of words that mean nothing.
 
onlinetom said:
FWIW, I drag a 1x12 combo to gigs 99% of the time, and I'm selling my big amps and cabs because in my next endeavor I won't need "show of force" sized gear.

But it's still tube driven, and I still would rather drink a glass of warm sweat than subject my audience to a fucking POS "almost as good as" sim.
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Quick q.

Is that 1x12 on the back line facing forward, on the front line facing forward, or turned sideways behind the mains so you aren't competing with the mains?

Best bands round these parts are using sideways combos. Its not perfect but I don't think its an accident either. I call it progress.
 
Jay Tee 4303 said:
Quick q.

Is that 1x12 on the back line facing forward, on the front line facing forward, or turned sideways behind the mains so you aren't competing with the mains?

Best bands round these parts are using sideways combos. Its not perfect but I don't think its an accident either. I call it progress.
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I don't understand the question? What does it matter? It's still a tube amp and not a sim. Whether I'm mic'd up and using it as my monitor or I self mix on stage, it's not a sim.

I keep think this thread is about real amps vs. sims.
 
I've been following this thread out of morbid curiosity, and all I can say is "Wow". Gotta go now. A 4/12 cab just crushed my meter bridge. Unfortunately my cat was laying on my board. Poor Norman.
 
bongoboy said:
WOOHOO!!! My last post pushed this thread up to 60 pages!!! What do I win?
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Oh listen to you.

I light this up with common sense that's been unpopular for 50 years and you try to cop the prize.

Fine.

Your prize is a flat cat, a string to swing it with, and a bunch of meter springs stuck in half your faders.
 
Greg_L said:
The goalposts got moved all over the place once Jaytard showed up. And I still have no idea what his point is.
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I have no idea either.

He keeps comparing guitar cabs to studio monitors and PA systems....(huh ???? WTF?).....and keeps missing the real point, you can still use a cab, just stick a mic in front of it, and then pump that through the damn PA or take the signal into your recording/monitoring chain.
Why is that so hard a concept for some people?

He just seems to ignore that because HE thinks he has a better solution for optimal guitar sound by rejecting HALF of the fucking equation. It's the amp + the cab....get it?
If you can't make it work for you, then the problem is you...it's not the cab.

Using sims or Line outs and "full range" arrays and what have you, in place of amps and cabs, doesn't improve guitar tone.
You can try and sell it that it does....but it doesn't, which is why the amp & cab combination is still THE choice for the majority of players.
Every other choice is about convenience, convenience, convenience...and some silly need to "can" the guitar sound so you can click on it with your mouse and recall it like some preset in a synth and so it sounds like the 50 identical guitar tones on some "commercially succesful" band music. :facepalm:
What happend to recording for yourself, for your tone....instead of wanting to just mimic (I guess that's what makes "sims" popular) some canned tones?
 
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