Virtual guitar amps/analog guitar amps

Greg_L said:
This.

I personally don't care how anyone gets their recorded sounds. Just don't tell me your fake approximation of the real thing is in any way better than the real thing. You can stuff a ziploc filled with vaseline between two couch cushions and go to town, but it's not better than a real woman. That's it in a nutshell.
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Well, there ARE women... No, let's stop this... To me, the Statement "it's no rock 'n' roll" sums it up best... I think you can get tones that will be ok, good, or even GREAT in the mix, but it HAS that vaseline attitude...
 
I've followed this thread for a while, and feel the need to chime in. I have a great hybrid solution.

I record my amps with mics most of the time, but when I have to record silently, I use my Egnater Rebel 30. It has a dedicated "Silent Record" mode with an XLR out. So I get to use a real tube amp with just speaker emulation. I think it sounds better than any amp sim i have tried.

I would never do it live, though. I was forced to run direct for a few shows about 10-15 years ago. WORST live experience of my life, and I'll never use any sims live again!
 
Palmer makes the best speaker sim filters I've ever heard. Honestly they sound better through the board than my amp in most rooms. I don't know what it is, but they're killer.
But Guitar Rig also comes pretty damn close to the real thing with a lot of their sounds as long as you're not inclined to adjusting the volume on the guitar while playing and expecting a 100% realistic response from the software. Then it partly depends on your preamp.
For live use I would take an amp with a Palmer DI in between the amp and speaker feeding my monitors all day long and feed the amp signal to the wall because it's that good.
I've never been able to mic a convincing amp sound either. I probably just suck and miking amps! ;) That and I haven't tried very hard because the sims (hardware and software) enable me to do it better and quicker.
 
In the early 90s, I emptied an entire bar (quicker and more completely than I normally do) by going direct from my amp head. I had a mic in the monitor, so I thought it sounded fine. I later heard a recording of what was coming out of the mains -- pure torture.
 
For the record, I'm not really down on your 4x12s.I spent the best minutes of New Year's Eve about ten feet in front of one that was just ripping my face off, couldn't hear anybody else, and didn't care to.

I get it.

What I'm down on is the look on your face when you hear the playback. When you slog thru hour after hour tweaking the signal off a tiny mic diaphragm that just isn't going to stop, or capture, the freight train blowing out of your Pratt and Whitney turbojet engine, not without hours and hours more work, while your mates lose the groove and the energy goes down the drain steada onto tape.

I'm down on all the people in the back of the house, wishing they'd picked a club with a BAND tonight, never knowing there's one 50 feet away, messing up an already tough room, by trying to drive it with a combination of the best equipment they can't afford, and a big fat guaranteed fail out past 20 feet.

I'm down on the idea that the fix is so goddam simple its a zillion headsmacks in one second, but the wall of sound rock merchants have convinced the whole world that it ain't rock without stax.

But it ain't that big a deal, really. There's a few peeps driving quality designed arrays with Marshall, Booogie, Fender and other heads. The dinosaurs still get to choose, and that's something.

And no matter how many 4x12s ya pile in one backline, or live room, we've been makin it work for nigh on 50 years now.

Knock yourself out.

Its all good.
 
I'm down on internet morons that don't know how to use an amp.
I'm down on people being lazy.
I'm down on people being tone deaf.
I'm down on settling for a simulation of the real thing.
I'm down on 50 pages of not one legitimate convincing argument in support of sims for live use.
 
You can still use an amp/cab/stack on stage.....AND....also have a good balanced PA system sound for the house and for the stage.

Those are not mutually exclusive.
 
Greg_L said:
I'm down on internet morons that don't know how to use an amp.
I'm down on people being lazy.
I'm down on people being tone deaf.
I'm down on settling for a simulation of the real thing.
I'm down on 50 pages of not one legitimate convincing argument in support of sims for live use.
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I'm down♫♪♫ I'm really down
I'm down, down ♫♪♫under the ground
I'm ♪ down, I'm really ♫ ♫down.....
How can you♫♪♫ laugh when you know I'm down ?
How can you laugh ♫♪when you know I'm down ?♫
 
miroslav said:
You can still use an amp/cab/stack on stage.....AND....also have a good balanced PA system sound for the house and for the stage.

Those are not mutually exclusive.
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Apparently it's become quite a problem to mic an amp on stage and have it pumped through the PA. I guess the 50+ years of live sound leading up to today were a fluke and the chickens have come home to roost. Maybe it's the economy. Maybe it's global climate change. Maybe it's aliens! These are strange times we live in!
 
Greg_L said:
Apparently it's become quite a problem to mic an amp on stage and have it pumped through the PA. I guess the 50+ years of live sound leading up to today were a fluke and the chickens have come home to roost. Maybe it's the economy. Maybe it's global climate change. Maybe it's aliens! These are strange times we live in!
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First let me state my usual disclaimer about "I don't care and don't hate digital and if it works for you then go for it" ...... everyone has their own way of working and the fact is, and it IS a fact, that any of these methods can work just fine.

But for me, having played around 15,000 gigs of all types, from playing in front of 30,000 people to playing large regional halls to small restaurants I find it funny when any of ya'll state any of this stuff as being absolute with zero exceptions.

Originally this thread was about how much virtual rigs were showing up in the gigging world .... and it was not just the superstar gigging world ..... it was simply in live work period.
I've gigged more than all of ya'll put together probably .... around 15,000 gigs ...... that's not even a slight exaggeration. And I'm not padding the numbers by including jams or practices ..... that's 15,000 paying gigs over my lifetime although this last year was slow and I probably only did around 230 gigs.

At present in the general world of working musicians virtual rigs have not made much of an impact ...... sorry but I'm in the trenches every single night as I have a mortgage to pay so I'm either gigging or out sitting-in to get work and they're simply not out there. I'm trying to think of any at all and the only ones I've seen would be in small one man band things. And even there they'll often use an amp for larger places.

As I've said before ..... the modelers and sims continue to make strides and I have no doubt at all that a time will come when they're so good and also cheap that they will take over the market.
But they haven't yet because I don't see them out there and I would because I'm out there every night.
 
50 years of live stage. Hum, well you work with what you have, people settled. We use to have victrolas, kind of moved passed them.

I saw a article on Steven Van Zandt putting back together the Young Rascals (now just called the Rascal, wonder why?). The article was talking about how much had changed in the last 40 years with on stage performance. On stage monitors, and now in ear monitors. Amps on stage verses now many are in ISO boxes with microphones. My understanding is, one of the reasons the Beatles stopped touring was the sound stage was so terrible, as they were doing the arenas, they felt they really couldn't play live. (Plus I think they became a studio band and a band in name only by that time)

So really, it hasn't worked in the last 50 years. Not sure of the correct answer is, but maybe it is a combination of the two. With what we have today, dollar for dollar, both would not be out of reach for many playing musicians. I really think it depends on the music. I couldn't see a rock band without equipment on the stage.
 
DM60 said:
My understanding is, one of the reasons the Beatles stopped touring was the sound stage was so terrible, as they were doing the arenas....
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Back then arena rock was not being done on any level, so the right PA/monitoring wasn't even available.

AFA it not working in the last 50 years.....I don't think that's the case.
I've been to larger concerts, and the sound CAN be done right....but it can also be done poorly.
It's not about the technology just now coming around becasue of sims and in-ear buds.
 
miroslav said:
Back then arena rock was not being done on any level, so the right PA/monitoring wasn't even available.

AFA it not working in the last 50 years.....I don't think that's the case.
I've been to larger concerts, and the sound CAN be done right....but it can also be done poorly.
It's not about the technology just now coming around becasue of sims and in-ear buds.
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The point I was trying to make, it has evolved over the last 50 years. Sims and in-ear buds are just an example of the evolution.
 
DM60 said:
50 years of live stage. Hum, well you work with what you have, people settled. We use to have victrolas, kind of moved passed them.

I saw a article on Steven Van Zandt putting back together the Young Rascals (now just called the Rascal, wonder why?). The article was talking about how much had changed in the last 40 years with on stage performance. On stage monitors, and now in ear monitors. Amps on stage verses now many are in ISO boxes with microphones. My understanding is, one of the reasons the Beatles stopped touring was the sound stage was so terrible, as they were doing the arenas, they felt they really couldn't play live. (Plus I think they became a studio band and a band in name only by that time)

.
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actually the Beatles quit playing live because sound systems were so primitive back then that no one could hear them and they couldn't hear themselves over the girls screaming. I've seen pictures of them playing stadiums with a like 10 speaker columns! :D

And I just can't agree that it hasn't worked ....... I've heard countless bands that sounded excellent with good volume control and dynamics in the last 50 years. They could sound just as good with modern gear but not really any better because they were freakin' excellent. Saw BS&T with the Baton Rouge Symphony and it was difficult to believe how much like a studio recording it sounded .... and a good number of local or regional bands that were just outstanding.
And I've heard bands that suck too .... far too many to count.
But it wasn't the gear they used ..... it was the band that sounded great or terrible.

And the same will be true of virtual gear when it takes over.

And I'm not sure why you come back at me in a slightly adversarial tone ..... I've repeatedly said that digital is fine if it's your chosen rig and have also said that I expect digital to eventually take over.

I'm hardly a dinosaur other than having a lot of years on me (sorry if that offends you) and I certainly haven't said anything about amps being the best way to go other than to say it's my personal preference and even then I've pointed out that I myself regularly use a modeler instead of an amp at gigs.

I simply reported on whether I see them being used much or not since I am out there.

So I hardly deserve your obvious contempt since NO one loves to play more than me and I'm as progressive and open to new tech as they come.
 
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