Vernon Reid

R

raab

New member
I'm seperating the Vernon Reid discussion from the worst solo discussion...that thread won't die!!!

Pinky said:
And yes, Vernon Reid can play - but he's very overrated. Probably because he's black and playing in a rock band, and black is cool, right? BTW, I'm a Living Colour fan so I say that with a sense of objectivity. They milked the whole "Look at me, we're black folk playing white people genre music". Aside from Hendrix there haven't been many popular black rock artists. Guess african americans have higher standards, rap and hip hop. lol [That's a joke of course, look at Jazz]
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Dude, I couldn't disagree more. Being black and playing "rock" music means being totally overlooked. Look at Fishbone. Right off, my favorite band in the universe. Totally BRILLIANT musicians and totally ignored by the mainstream since they split from their major label in the 90's. The greatest live band in existence IMO, and currently stuck playing in front of small audiences on the club circuit. Look at Bad Brains. Low record sales, and not getting much shows in large venues. Look at 24-7 Spyz. Stuck in less than packed clubs. Rocky George of Suicidal Tendencies (and now Fishbone), AWESOME soloist. When was he last in a guitar mag?

What black rockers are getting press right now? Hardly any, Lenny Kravitz seems to be the only one and his rock is pretty sad compared to his early albums.

I look at Vernon as a jazz head who dabbles in rock, and I think his solos make much more sense if you've listened to him playing with Ronald Shannon Jackson. Vernon's "Mistaken Identity" album is one of my favorite fusion records evern made. Living Colour's latest album got 5 stars in Rolling Stone but has gotten little airplay. I think if Vernon was white and the music toned down he would have gotten a lot more fanfare, to this day. Mainstream america just isn't as willing to listen to black people play rock as they are for white rock bands, and is more willing to black people rap than play distorted guitars. Vernon's playing is descended in a lot of ways from the late great Sonny Sharrock, who has played this style of guitar with Pharoah Sanders, Elvin Jones, Herbie Mann, etc.

There's a new movie out called "Rock and Roll N-----" that is specifically about the tribulations faced by black rock musicians in the music industry.
 
I like your taste, Raab. I've seen Fishbone live 4 times (the first time, 24-7 Spyz opened). And of course Bad Brains are from my city. So consider yourself preaching to the choir with me! And I'm gonna keep an eye out for that documentary. Looks interesting.
 
There are people in all walks of life everywhere that are racists, but keep in mind that the rock business is tough all over. There are tons and tons of bands that have 10's of 1000's of fans that think they're the best bands ever. They get no label support and disappear. I think any serious rock fan could list a handful of their favorite bands that they think are underrated and many of these bands will end up flipping burgers.

Also, critical acclaim is not proportional to record sales.

I recall Living Colour and Vernon especially getting tons and tons of press when they came on the scene. I bought the CD and thought that they were too all over the place. I think they were trying to cover too much ground. People liked them because they did rock on their big radio hit, and they had no follow up single. This happens to countless bands.

Here's a couple of pretty heavy bands I hear regularly on Sirius:
http://www.godforbid.com/
http://www.sevendust.com/
 
I don't think it's a race thing. Living Color got a fair bit of press when they first hit, they didn't have a commercially successful follow-up. Now they're "yesterday's news" and won't get press even if they do really good work. It's a common tale. Maybe not fair, but that's just the way it goes.

I think Vernon is a killer player, by the way.
 
Hmmmmmmmmmm not really sure but isn't it like.................

Living Colour were big in their day, they were there at the right time when all the crossover stuff happened during the late 80s to early 90s.

Okay Vernon [and the rest of the band] was trying to do more: Open up the discussion about race and social issues..................again this was more popular as it is today so........................

Not really sure if Vernon would like to be more mainstream as it did get with Living Colour, as he is a musician who loves to explore. Now most of us who are like that will not get mass-popular appeal.
 
there is some SMOKIN' material on their second album, "times up". i never heard much of their music after that.
 
Living Colour actually got a fair amount of coverage and airplay from "Vivid" through "Stain", and quite a few videos got made off those 3 LP's (of which "Stain" is definately my favorite). I would hardly consider them a one hit wonder. I agree with them being in the right place at the right time for their crossover, and I don't think they'd be able to make that same crossover today, it seems like the media and public are a lot less open minded than it was in the early 90's.

Their latest album, Collideascope, is really good. Like I said, it got 5 stars in Rolling Stone from what I hear. Stain is still my favorite, but I like this new one better as a whole album than Vivid and Time's Up.

Anybody heard Vernon's latest solo album? I haven't been able to find it to check it out.
 
Black rock guitar players get no respect.

I mean, there was this Hendrix guy that used to play...I bet you never even heard of him.

What about Slash?

H2H
 
Hard2Hear said:
Black rock guitar players get no respect.

I mean, there was this Hendrix guy that used to play...I bet you never even heard of him.

What about Slash?

H2H
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the question is: ... would Hendrix be known *at all* if he'd played like Slash ... ?????

and how BIIIIG would Slash be if he'd play like Jimmy .... my guess is - he would be HUUUUUGE
 
i think it's save to say that the two guitarists that shaped the sound of modern rock guitar the most were both black : berry and hendrix.
 
faderbug said:
i think it's save to say that the two guitarists that shaped the sound of modern rock guitar the most were both black : berry and hendrix.
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Amen brother.

As far as Vernon Reid goes. I went to a bunch of their gigs in FL, met them several times, watched sound check several times and I can tell you that Vernon is the real deal. I've heard people say, he's just noise, etc. But he can flat out play. That whole band was sort of like Zeppelin, every member extremely strong on their instruments, no weaknesses. Then they get Doug Wimbish who is a certified badmotherfucker on the bass. Talk about upgrading!

tim
 
Hendrix was relegated to "chitlin boogaloo-in" until he hit London and became an export back to his own country.

No matter WHAT Fishbone did to satisfy their White(Yellow?) "mazzas" at Sony, they really coundn't ever be white enough for them.

We'll let alone the pressure a black artist gets from the black community to "keep it real" and stay away from the "devil's music."

Angelo Moore had this to say about the whole affair:

Rock Star
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I was a kid I would go to the show and see
the rock star I'd play my records and look at
the album cover at the rock star Sometimes I'd
check out the R&B But the polka, salsa
classical scene just was not me. I wanted to be
like Bootsy Dr. Funkenstein or Jimi the rock star
Color meant nothing to me Everything was equal
as far as I could see. Ignorant to the racist
music industry music industry music industry
Music industry...white rock star
Everywhere I look...white rock star Read it in the
paper...white rock star Watch it on TV...white
rock star Only just a little...black rock star
Only for a token...black rock star
Sing no controversy...black rock star
Sometimes for the flavor of Japanese
No communication but it's overseas. Unaware of
how propaganda works I soon became a victim,
a trick at work With my black brotha's playin'
rock & roll signed and ho'in for a major label
selling my soul as a rock star.
Do the rock star ohh Do the rock star yeah
Break a window, smash a TV We're some hott
mother fucka's It's no doubt about, we do the
rock star Ohh do the rock star, yeah
Get real drunk, fuck, fuck, fuck Kick in the radio,
smash up a chair Do the rock star, wooh
Do the rock star, yeah Wreck your hotel room
Catch a Lear jet Stay in debt, manic depressed
Sweat & jerk to the best Smoke a cig, fuck,
fuck, fuck, Lie fry loosin' your mind like a rock
star Loose it! I got supposed fortune & fame
with existential potential Of runnin' the game,
but it the greedy of the whitey at the top of my
frame that's Blurrin' my art piece, makin' it
Weak see makin' it watered down Dilutin' my
funky sound But it's all you need to be in this
weak society Powder puffy rock star dumb
Keepin' people stupid and dumb Do the rock
star ooh Do the rock star hey Shoot up some
heroin Snort some cocaine Smash your guitar
Wreck a jet plane With a short gun to your brain
For the price of fame like Kurt Cobain Doin' the
rock star main Color meant nothing to me
But now I just can't escape From the rains that
drive me ape of their white fear through the
television in my eyes in my ears Racism!
Separation! Media! So I guess you can say I'm an
angry brotha Can't play my music 'cause of
barrier of color Deep in debt with a seven record
set Videos and funky shows but no one knows
The major pain and misery of bein' radical
Speakin' of what you feel in a world that's sad and
dull But the rock star got the money
and the fuck fuck right action lights and plane
flights Drugs and press but in reality
it's a lot less when you're the rock star oooh.
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Racial bias and slant is alive and well in the presentation and marketing of music - THANK GOD the notes themselves don't give two shits about the hands/hearts creating them.

Let me tell you, the visual medium (MTV, etc.) hasn't helped this much. Hell, they thought Nat King Cole was white on listening only.

Vernon Reid == Good
 
The lead vocalist for Killswitch Engage is awesome. Excellent stage presence, and a larger than life voice. I remember seeing them earlier this year and saying to myself "holy shit, this guy can sing".

We should not forget a group of people that play the music that rock was influenced the most by: blues. And who were the 3 kings?
 
raab said:
........................ I agree with them being in the right place at the right time for their crossover, and I don't think they'd be able to make that same crossover today, it seems like the media and public are a lot less open minded than it was in the early 90's.
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That is it, plus the fact that with the techonology of today people can put their music on sites so audiences all around the globe have a change to hear what you are doing as a musician.

Musicians do not need the media to get heard, but they still do need the media to get major deals, mass appeal and massive earnings.

Has anyone checked the link Farview gave here. Open it up, what you will find is Vernon Reid guesting on an album which is accessable through MySpace. NOw what does that tell us? The guy just loves playing and likes to do what he likes doing. You can do that and people can even hear it, but it may not get you a lot of attention from the media.

But heh? Living Colour had their heyday, so who cares? Think Vernon is quite happy being able to choose who he can record and play music with.

It is probably close to the status we all have on this board minus the fact that some of us have been very popular at some time. Well off course, I need to be careful with that statement, as some of us may be [or have been at some stage] very popular..................................
 
I always was very popular with my family :D

I did se vernon a couple of years ago live (96 or so)- and he was doing some "way out there" atmospheric music ...

I really got the feeling that he is one of the folks that comes closest to Mr. Hendrix (spirit, not the technique) - in a way that he is always striving for new stuff .. not just running the mill (like YJM, EVH, Vai) who seem to have found their formula and do it again and again and again...

He is def. an extraordinary player and musician...
 
AlfredB said:
................He is def. an extraordinary player and musician...
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Yep and probably happy with what he has achieved so far, is probably also enjoying most of his musical activities without having to do useless talkshows.

Oh eh.........keep up your popularity with your family, very important. My status seem to have fallen a bit with the family lately, not really sure what caused this...........perhaps playing a little too much :eek: and speaking too little :eek: :D
 
I remember reading quite some time ago an interview with VR, and he was explaining that the band originally wanted to do hard rock to heavy metal. Because they were black, the record company thought they couldn't sell in a heavy metal market, so pushed them to prepare songs in a different style - what you see on the first two albums. I wish I could find that interview, but it was so long ago I have no idea where I read it.
 
Monsoon said:
I remember reading quite some time ago an interview with VR, and he was explaining that the band originally wanted to do hard rock to heavy metal. Because they were black, the record company thought they couldn't sell in a heavy metal market, so pushed them to prepare songs in a different style - what you see on the first two albums. I wish I could find that interview, but it was so long ago I have no idea where I read it.
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I have an interview with him in GP from the early 90s, it was taken at the time when their second album came out. Could put some quotes here if people are interested. Most of the interview is a run down of the songs: How he played on particular songs, how he got his sound on particular parts, what kind of equipment, but I am sure there is also something which deals with the larger apects of the band, the socio-political issues.

Give me a few days to see if there is anything worthwile mentioning from that interview
 
Vernon Reid is my favorite guitarist ever...right up there with Hendrix and Frisell.

He's generally dissed because most rock guitarists don't have the frame of reference that he had. You'd have to know something about (and like) Eric Dolphy and late-era 'Trane for it to "work" I guess.

I appreciate the fact that Guitar Player magazine really gave him a boost in the late 80s and early 90s before the magazine went to crap after Joe Gore left.

check out this Reid-inspired soloing on "Mohawk"

http://www.myspace.com/infiniteegosavioronasis

and you should definately check out www.kronosonic.com -- lots of Reid fans there.
 
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