Trying to turn tube

Haha long story short, I was getting tired of all the emulation and mental constipation that comes with these new modeling amps and I want to change things up by going tube, I'm kinda strapped for cash so I'm looking at these low end models like orange micro terror, vox lil night train, kustom defender, blackstar 5h, and trying to decide which might be the best bang for my buck, even if I have to put a couple dollars into "hot rodding" it or buying a stomp box or two. The kustom looked like a good candidate because I've seen some really awesome mods on the web and people have claimed its an easy amp to access therefore easier to modify. eg: swap out the tubes.
 
TheBones said:
Haha long story short, I was getting tired of all the emulation and mental constipation that comes with these new modeling amps and I want to change things up by going tube, I'm kinda strapped for cash so I'm looking at these low end models like orange micro terror, vox lil night train, kustom defender, blackstar 5h, and trying to decide which might be the best bang for my buck, even if I have to put a couple dollars into "hot rodding" it or buying a stomp box or two. The kustom looked like a good candidate because I've seen some really awesome mods on the web and people have claimed its an easy amp to access therefore easier to modify. eg: swap out the tubes.
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It's a single ended tube amp which is about as simple as it gets so it's a really good choice for someone who wants to learn about this stuff. There will be other mods that can even involve changing trannies and such and ALL of it will be about as simple as it gets for a beginner.
If I saw one for cheap I'd snap it up and I don't even need anymore amps.
I have an Epi Valve Jr. which is a similar single ended el84 amp ...... I find it quite useful.

I gotta say though ...... if the budget permits I'd go for the Blackstar 5H ..... a lot more veratile with 3 band EQ and some gain control.
 
Lt. Bob said:
As for tubes ..... yeah they can make a difference ...... especially in a studio setting like teh gerg's where you obsess over tiny tonal changes.
But for live work I don't find it to be worth the stupid money they charge and it's a difference I feel like I can simply correct for in the tone settings.
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Yup. If I were strictly a gigging guitarist, there's lots of things I wouldn't care about. Tubes being one of them. I try lots of stuff that yield micro changes for recording though. I bet I've mic'd every square millimeter of these cabs with at least 6 or 7 different mics. Lol. Mostly just for my own experimentation and because it's interesting. I'm not really chasing tone though as much as I'm trying to eliminate what sucks with my own equipment. I can say to myself "hey this mic on this speaker with these amp setting is shit, don't go there". Same with my drums. For live use, your heads and shit simply don't matter that much. Cymbal selection isn't that important. Mic placement isn't that important. Stick a mic anywhere inside the kick drum and run it to the PA. Use any cymbals you want for live use. Heads a little old? No problem. For recording though, all that shit matters a lot.

Really though, the old saying holds true with a hack like me like it does with pretty much everyone - tone is in your hands. I can dial my amps all kinds of different ways and use different cabs and guitars. My powerchords sound pretty much the same no matter what. :o
 
Greg_L said:
Really though, the old saying holds true with a hack like me like it does with pretty much everyone - tone is in your hands. I can dial my amps all kinds of different ways and use different cabs and guitars. My powerchords sound pretty much the same no matter what. :o
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well ...... until the 'tone to die for' thread I might have believed that but truthfully ..... it was pretty interesting to see just how different power chords could sound with different mics/speakers ..... I don't think we ever got into tubes though.
 
Lt. Bob said:
well ...... until the 'tone to die for' thread I might have believed that but truthfully ..... it was pretty interesting to see just how different power chords could sound with different mics/speakers ..... I don't think we ever got into tubes though.
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Yeah that's totally true, but my point was that to me it still sounds like me. Know what I mean? I can't be something I'm not no matter what kind of gear I use. I'm gonna play my chords and do my sloppy bends the way I play them and it's gonna sound like the way I play them no matter what I play through. I play my bandmates gear after our practices, and it sounds completely different than when they play through it. Same guitar, same amp settings, same cab, different guy, different sound. Since I've really tried to immerse myself in guitar gear this past year and a half or so, that kind of stuff has really sunk in.
 
Greg_L said:
Yeah that's totally true, but my point was that to me it still sounds like me. Know what I mean? I can't be something I'm not no matter what kind of gear I use. I'm gonna play my chords and do my sloppy bends the way I play them and it's gonna sound like the way I play them no matter what I play through. I play my bandmates gear after our practices, and it sounds completely different than when they play through it. Same guitar, same amp settings, same cab, different guy, different sound. Since I've really tried to immerse myself in guitar gear this past year and a half or so, that kind of stuff has really sunk in.
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Absolutely ....... I read an interesting article about tone that was about saxophone tone and this one player (can't remember who) said that you could buy different mouthpieces or reeds or saxes but after you use them a while they'd all sound about the same.

His reason was that you have a 'sound' in your head that you're trying to achieve and regardless of what you use you'll pretty much end up at that sound because that's 'your' sound and you'll adjust your playing to get it.
 
Lt. Bob said:
Absolutely ....... I read an interesting article about tone that was about saxophone tone and this one player (can't remember who) said that you could buy different mouthpieces or reeds or saxes but after you use them a while they'd all sound about the same.

His reason was that you have a 'sound' in your head that you're trying to achieve and regardless of what you use you'll pretty much end up at that sound because that's 'your' sound and you'll adjust your playing to get it.
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Yes, that makes perfect sense. You know my scope and tastes are pretty narrow. I have one ideal type of sound and style and I go for that pretty much by default. Be it drums, bass, or guitar. It's interesting that a sax player would say that. I can totally relate.
 
I've always thought a lot of the hype around special components (tubes included) was just that, hype.

I build a lot of pedals etc. I've swapped parts and tried different boutique parts...for the most part they don't make much if any difference. And usually, the difference isn't good vs. bad, it's just different. I've always thought the same must be true of tubes. I've just used mostly JJs and been super happy so I've never bothered to try anything else.

The only parts I've found do make a significant difference are the caps in small values (.001-.0047 uf). A good quality capacitor in that spot is critical, but i may just be because the entire circuit is beefier and simpler than an amp or pedal. Good caps are a waste in pedals IMO. And expensive tubes would seem to be the same in an amp.
 
In fact, it kinda bothers me when people want audiophile quality parts in their amps. The sound of rock n' roll is because of the inefficiencies of the circuit! If Leo's bassman hadn't distorted when it was turned up, if it had stayed audiophile clean all the way up, it would be a boring amp. I think a lot of mojo in amps is because they don't have mega high end parts, and aren't mega high end circuits.
 
Hi Bones
The valve amps around at the moment come in so many different degrees it is really hard to find one that fits your needs.
The best way to go is stake out the sound booth at your music store and just get stuck into a couple of the tastier ones.

I recently bought a VOX 30 Watt and as it an A series amp it has loads of punch.
The preamp drivers give it a nice bluesey overdriven sound before you even get to the top end which can also whale.

You will just have to hear it for yourself.
Happy hunting
caio
Bronwyn
 
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