Too much BASS

A

AlinMV

New member
Hello all

Here is the problem. I mix my thirty track song in my little home studio to the levels I like, and then I go to listen to it in the car, and WOW >:) WAY TOO MUCH BASS. I had to go back to my rig and shave off 7db's off my bass track to make it sound ok in the car . . . The problem is that when I do that the bass is barely audible in my monitors. Bottom line is I need to be able to hear what I am mixing so that it sounds OK in the studio.

What should I do? I could just mix to taste and then shave 6 to 7 db's off my bass track, but that seems like a cruddy way to work -- or maybe I should just learn to live with it.

Here's my set up:

MAC G4 - Digital Performer - Motu 2408
Monitors: Events PS 8's.
Mixer: Mackie 1202 VLZ
Room: 10 x 10

I mix everything in Digital Performer. I only use the Mackie to route my keys, etc... The EQ on the Mackie are set flat.

Are these my only options?

1 EQ my monitors (don't really like the idea or the result)

2 Get a subwoofer (but that is almost the same as EQing my monitors or is it?)

3 Buy some NS10's (whoa - no flames please)

Please help with any ideas.

Thanks

Albert
 
Well...

...the PS8s are not bass-shy nearfields - they're pretty well-balanced, so there are 2 possibilities - 1) you haven't learned how to translate mixes on your monitors yet... and 2) there's a problem with the sound-response in your monitoring area.

You aren't hearing enough bass so you overcompensate at the console, resulting in a bass-heavy mix. If it's the room, you could experiment with monitor placement to improve things. Move the monitors closer to wall surfaces. Deaden the area behind the monitors. If it's a question of learning your monitors, then you need to do a lot of listening to commercial CDs and learning where you should be mixing to make you mixes sound comparable.

Adding a sub is not intended to give more bass to what the nearfields already provide, it's supposed to be set-up to only extend the low-response down beyond where the nearfields drop off. So no, it's not the same as EQing the monitoring chain.

Bruce
 
Bruce

Thanks for the advice. I have listened to many commercial CD's and frankly they sound rather thin on the PS8's. Maybe that's the sound I should be shooting for. But, that seems like a weird (and counter intuitive)goal to have.

I will experiment with monitor placement. As far as deadening the areas behind the monitors, do you suggest studio foam (auralex, etc...)?

Thanks again Bruce. You have taught me much of what little I know about mixing.

Albert
 
If the commercial CDs sound thin...

...then it's the room - you could have a dead spot. I have one in my control room too, about 7 feet back behind my console chair (doesn't affect me, but anyone listening from farther behind me in one specific spot gets a significant drop in bass response.

The Auralex stuff will definitely work for ya, but it's somewhat pricey (but still cheaper than Sonex I think).

Unless the speakers are blown, that's not the answer. I use PS6s and they have enough bass... the PS8s are even larger have somewhat more low-end.... it's gotta be the room. Or maybe you're just expecting too much??? ;)

Good luck...
Bruce
:)
 
It could be that you are sitting in one of the dead spots, frequently in live PA applications if you walk straight towards the stage halfway between the speakers you will hear the bass dissappear, then reappear, then get way too loud, etc. What happens is the sound waves are reinforcing and cancelling at different frequencies/distances.

Moving your monitors should fix it, if you move them farther apart the dead spot should move back, together and it should move forward. you can also try moving them forward or farther back from your mix position.

I once did a cool experiment, I recorded a pure sine wave and played it back through the monitors with one channel phase flipped, there were places in the control room where you literally could not hear it, you just sort of felt a wierd kind of pressure on your eardrums but heard nothing, move your head to the side a little and suddenly you can hear it again.
 
hi AlinMV,

i would spend some time reading about Room Modal response. first, get a handle on the problem of Room Modal Response. below 300Hz, the room response is characterized by peaks and valleys and this response causes the Bass levels to drastically change depending on where you are. smoothing below 300Hz is not handled by deadening behind the speakers. although, you need to consider this also (different problem, different solution). Room Modal response is corrected by careful placement of low frequency absorbers. the problem is that standing waves are created in all three planes, X-Y-Z which causes cancellations and summing at different spots in the room. you've probably experienced that corners have a lot more bass, this is because all Modes (low frequency waves) terminate in corners (sum in corners) which results in a lot more low frequency there. a null is located at the midpoint of the wall.

if you're really interesting in fixing this problem, before you spend any funds on treatments, i'd recommend "The Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest. get a better understanding of the problem first.

next, download the demo version of ETF from http://www.acoustisoft.com. you can check your room with the demo version and get a good idea about the response.

your goal is to smooth the sweet-spot (where you sit) at the expense of the rest of the room. you can't fix the whole room.

regards,
-kp-
 
Thanks for filling-in on my answer's missing links Sonixx - I'm no expert at room acoustics and since we seemed to have narrowed down the problem to the room, the answers AlinMV needed were more than I could provide!

Cheers,
Bruce

:)
 
Thank you all for your input . . .

Hey Sonixx, I coudn't access the website you posted, it said it was under construction. I did however find ETF at this website which seems to have some really interesting and technical stuff:

http://www.wssh.net/~wattsup/audio/

I will download ETF later and see what the problem is. I did move the monitors closer to the walls and that did seem to help a little. However, I think there is more bass to squeeze out of them. I'll keep on experimenting . . .

BTW I did experience an amazing amount of bass in the corner of the room . . .

Thanks again for keeping the info flowing.

Albert
 
AlinMV


I have a very controversial suggestion.

A while back, my home stereo had a problem with the mid bass.
The answer?

GOOD SPEAKER WIRE.

I suggest you open up the phone book find a small Hi end stereo dealer
& look for a wire called M.I.T.

This wire is excellent for mid bass & will make your speakers sound great.
The price can go very high, but you do not need to spend all that much.
I suggest spending around 2-4 dollars a foot.

Before you buy, Tell them you would like to audition speaker cable at your home.
If they say no... LEAVE IMMEDIATELY!


If you can not find an MIT Cable dealer, then go to a Wiz or Circuit City.
There you can find Monster Cable Interlink 400 or Monster M1.
Either one of those should also do the job.

There you will have to purchase the wire, but if unhappy they will
probably take it back.
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... sure....

It's the monitor cable, NOT the room acoustics.........

Yeah, that makes more sense!

*nudge, nudge* *wink, wink*
 
Last edited:
Try this...

Reverse the wires on one of your monitors, or check and see if you have somehow gotten things out of phase somewhere- phase reverse one side if you have the functionality, and see if bass increases. You say they sound thin on popular mixes too, then there may be a problem with cancellation. Anyone agree?
Paul
 
Re: Thank you all for your input . . .

AlinMV said:
Hey Sonixx, I coudn't access the website you posted, it said it was under construction. I did however find ETF at this website which seems to have some really interesting and technical stuff:

http://www.wssh.net/~wattsup/audio/

I will download ETF later and see what the problem is. I did move the monitors closer to the walls and that did seem to help a little. However, I think there is more bass to squeeze out of them. I'll keep on experimenting . . .

BTW I did experience an amazing amount of bass in the corner of the room . . .

Thanks again for keeping the info flowing.

Albert
Click to expand...

hi AlinMV,

the Period Character at the end of the sentence became part of the URL and shouldn't have been. it sounds like you found it but here it is again:

www.acoustisoft.com

regards,
-kp-
 
Re: Try this...

tubedude said:
Reverse the wires on one of your monitors, or check and see if you have somehow gotten things out of phase somewhere- phase reverse one side if you have the functionality, and see if bass increases. You say they sound thin on popular mixes too, then there may be a problem with cancellation. Anyone agree?
Paul
Click to expand...
Yup, should have been the first thing to suggest to check... I guess I kinda assumed he'd already done that!

:)
Bruce
 
REVERSE WIRES?

What am I missing here? I have bi-amplified Events PS-8's. What wires are there to reverse? I would understand that if I had passive monitors but mine are active. . .

No, my car has no subwoofer or any kind of bass enhancing stuff in it. Actually, the reason why I know I have too much bass is that the mixes had too much bass on just about every system I played them on.

Here's what I have done so far . . . I brought down my Altec Lansing speakers with Subwoofer, and calibrated the subwoofer as I was listening to the new Steely Dan CD, and other CD's. I then remixed my song, and have yet to get to the car for this test . . . Will see how that goes.

Bruce, I did buy some of that Auralex stuff, and placed it behind the monitors. Is that where it goes? I assumed it was. . .

Thanks again for the info

Albert
 
hmmm....

I think where you would want the diffusor is behind you where you are getting reflections from. Moving monitors closer to the wall usually increases the bassiness, but the diffusor will prob break that up some.
As far as reversing the wires or whatever... if you're using a program that has a phase reverse switch, then switch one side and see if you're bass increases. Also, you can turn up a kick drum or poppy bass track pretty loud, and check both speakers... they should both move in and out at the same time, not opposite. If they arent the same, then you have a wiring problem SOMEWHERE in your lineup, and it could just about be anywhere in your setup.
Let us know what happens.... :)
 
Re: Auralex placement...

Yes, but as Sonixx pointed out, that doesn't help with bass response problems....

And yes, since you're using actives - you could not have easily phase-reversed your monitors, so that's not an issue. Everything still points to room response anomalies.

Bruce
 
SHUT UP BEAR!

It is not cool to dismiss advice you do not agree with.

Who fucking told you, that you knew everything.

This bass problem I have had before, so let me give my opinion.

Who is to say that your always right & I'm always wrong.

I have seen YOU give plenty of unqualified advice.

I recall you giving Law advice at one time.

Are you a fucking Attorney.

FUCK NO!

YOUR just some fucking engineer that pokes his BIG NOSE into every thing.

Well here at HOME rec. my opinion is just as valuable as yours.

Well... maybe not, but I at least have the right to give my two cents without
you jumping all over me.

DICK HEAD!


Hey, your ignorance on cable is remarkable to me.

Have you ever compared high quality cables to that BELDEN GARBAGE
or have you just decided in that thick head of yours that sound difference
is unplausible?

Is it your position that cable makes NO sound difference at all?

No wonder so many CDs sound like crap.
With close minded engineers hitting the record button & not ever considering
the item that connect every single fucking component in your studio.
 
Ummm, what you are doing is called "overreacting" smelly. If you're confident in yourself there's no reason to get so uptight.

Hey, have you ever posted any samples of your recordings? Put your money where your mouth is. I'm getting tired of your flaming crap with nothing to back yourself up but the crybaby routine.
 
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