To click-track or not to click-track..

[PoorBoyRecordings]

I voted yes but .....

It depends on the person/people playing. I personally don't need a click track as I pretty much have a good built in timer in my self. Although I do use a click track sometimes because some songs sound good with the extra click in it ( IMO ). Geesh, I sleepy yet. Did that make sense ?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Why does everybody think there's any musical value in playing with mathematical perfection? I always gather it's because of lack of accurate knowledge on what really makes a groove and swing occur.

That's very true, but it only represents one end of the spectrum of the story. One has to know how to play to a beat (at least mentally) before they can play around with the beat. There's a difference between being able to build a groove around a beat that's not strictly mechanical, and randomly smacking the drums because the "drummer" can't hold a proper beat to begin with. Personally I don't understand the purpose of a drummer who needs a click track for that reason, that's kind of like buying a car that needs to be pulled by a team of horses. But it unfortunately happens all the time on the HR level.

Can this thread die yet?

G.

 

[dodgeaspen]

It might be ok sometimes but I think it's almost strict. It might take some of the essence out of the feel if theirs a click.

 

[dintymoore]

... Can this thread die yet? G.

Probably not, and I think it's due to the fact that the biggest mystery to mankind is and always will be "time".

(and good points in the rest of your post - thanks!)

 

[miroslav]

There's a difference between being able to build a groove around a beat that's not strictly mechanical, and randomly smacking the drums because the "drummer" can't hold a proper beat to begin with.

+1

I'll just add that a click track isn’t JUST for helping out “bad” drummers. Heck, if a drummer can’t hold a beat, then a click track will prove VERY difficult to follow rather than a help!!! I see the click track just as a reference point and NOT as the absolute time keeper. You can groove in and around a click just as easily as you can groove in and around other instruments .
Most drummers (even good ones) are not perfect time clocks anyway, and yeah, for many players, a lot of the “feel” is often nothing more than loose playing.
There is music that sounds really good when it DOES follow solid time, while “push/pull” playing only works for certain kinds of music. Anything that’s danceable sounds better IMO when the beat is rock solid.

Also…I never view the drummer as the “absolute” time keeper, and that therefore it’s only up to the drummer to set a feel/groove. Any instrument, including the vocals, can set the feel/time.
I see the drums more as a percussive instrument, rather than just for keeping time.

Oh...sorry...I guess I just bummped the thread back to life again...but I won't be upset if it dies.


miroslav

 

[Han]

Miroslav, are you the same miro from the musicplayer forums?

 

[dintymoore]

I have a problem with the drummer following anything - it's his role to be the generator of the time, not the follower, or at least that's the way it seemed in Miles Davis' bands, the Beatles, and Earth Wind & Fire.

I had a terrible time playing with a click - bought a mechanical metronome in university and couldn't play along with it.

Then with MIDI, I've been playing with a click every day since 1983, now I can't go off, haven't lost the beat in over 20 years.

A few years ago I got out the mechanical metronome and realized it was off.

Then I read an article by Roger Nichols. He was talking about Donald Fagen spending days moving drummer Steve Shaeffer's kick to the right and left, every one of them, to get it right. That's when I realized how nuts this all is - Steve's a massively good drummer.

So my conclusion is the best way is for the drummer to learn how to play with a click and then don't.

 

[NYMorningstar]

I have a problem with the drummer following anything - it's his role to be the generator of the time, not the follower, .

It's all the players role to follow(keep) the timing. There's no law saying drummers can't be drifters.

The click is for the peeps that can't keep a tempo and there's plenty of them.

Is a click absolutely necessary, no but it's not necessary for a song to have perfect tempo either.

It's a tool for God's sake so let's get on with life!

If all the musicians would get out the way of, the music would write itself

 

[miroslav]

Miroslav, are you the same miro from the musicplayer forums?

Hey...long time no see, Han!

Ever since that big move happened over there awhile back...the audio/recording forums and topics pretty much died completely off.
I hung around on a couple of the other forums for some time, but now I've moved on from there altogether.
It's pretty dead over there.

I was bouncing around the Internet looking for some new group of audio aficionados, and I saw that these HR forums still had plenty of life in their audio/recording areas, so I joined up a few weeks ago.

So how are things with you Han? Are you still recording regularly?
Do you still roll tape?

I’m glad to find an old friend here!


miroslav

 

[Cyrokk]

If you want the drummer to have better ebb and flow of his playing, yet still adhere to a click, you can half the bpm.

 

[dintymoore]

I heard that this was pretty good:

 

[Han]

Hey...long time no see, Han!

Ever since that big move happened over there awhile back...the audio/recording forums and topics pretty much died completely off.
I hung around on a couple of the other forums for some time, but now I've moved on from there altogether.
It's pretty dead over there.

I was bouncing around the Internet looking for some new group of audio aficionados, and I saw that these HR forums still had plenty of life in their audio/recording areas, so I joined up a few weeks ago.

So how are things with you Han? Are you still recording regularly?
Do you still roll tape?

I’m glad to find an old friend here!


miroslav

Hey old friend! Yes, I'm still recording on two inch tape and actually I just bought 40 rolls of virgin Emtec 911 from old stock, no substitute, genuine Emtec 911 and that sounds so very sweet you know.

I am 66 years of age now and in Holland we get quite some money when you get 65, so I'm kind of 'retired' but gladly I'm very healthy, so I record bands and orchestras because I like the job so much.

Glad to meet you here old pal! Hope to meet you at harmony central and gearslutz as well.

Peace!

 

[Galaxy]

Honestly, I always use one for starting. I'll use a click track as the base of everything. Then usually bass, then drums. (while listening back I'll play it once with, once off - just to see if everything is in its place) Then I will take the click out and record guitar. Last I'll add keys and then finally vocals. If I don't build from a click (or multiple click variations in different runs - like when the tempo changes) I almost always end up syncing stuff random parts up later to make it on beat. Its like a temporary backbone.

 

[glynb]

I think if the idea is to record a band as 'live' as possible (ie record the band playing the song in one particular take) under studio conditions, then no click track. the click would spoil the mood/feel. The feel is what your trying to capture.

if overdubbing is required, each instrument overdubbed afterwards (say after getting the drums down) then a click track can be very useful. Would depend on the particular song. There may be sections where drums drop out in the arrangement...you'd probably need a click under those conditions?

Some slight deviation from the absolute tempo is only human isn't it? Depends on the genre I guess whether it works for the better, or not.

 

[Terry Wetzel]

I agree. A click not only ties it all together but, if you are hand playing the drum parts individually on a key board,(yes I still do cause I just don't understand midi),it is obvious when a part strays from the original set tempo. Some may find a click too regimented and boring but tempo is important and it's difficult if not impossible to find a drummer who doesn't stray from the count off. Wittness Elvis Presley's band with their live performance to old large screen videos of past concerts. Ronnie Tutt, one of R&R's greatest drummers guides the entire show via CLICK TRACK over head phones and the band, and orchestra never miss a lick!

 

[truth_movement]

I primarily play metal and I stand by my click track. I've been using a click live for the past year (we've been together for 18 months) and now developing that by producing backing tracks.

It's an art in itself playing live to a click and even more so with a backing track as in some songs, we only have a pad and some effects playing about 2 mins in to the song. Ques and stuff are essential so it's no reflection on my playing ability.

It all started by just getting annoyed at seeing my favourite bands and just noticing how sloppy they were playing when it got a bit crazy so we decided to make sure we sound the same live as we do on the CD. Prefek.

Check us out at www.myspace.com/thefallenyork and search theFALLEN York on youtube. Things are toight and it shows!

 

[JIMBOdrummer]

a lot of times i lay down guitar and bass before the drums. so i click them and let the drummer play to the music.

other times i turn the music slightly down and play a click. for instance when i do a song with a lot of double bass, i prefer to play a click to keep the bass notes evenly spaced.

but recently i did a more funky song with a really solid drummer and let him play without a click. the only time we used one was during an 8-10 measure drum solo so he knew when to come back EXACTLY.

 

[NYMorningstar]

The whole click-track situation really depends on the situation

If you're doing a live band recording, a click track is really not the way to go. You want the session to flow with each of the members feeding of each other and the rythem section, not off of a metronome.

Exactly why can't I feed off both and what if I am the rhythm section?

On the other hand, there are times when you just want a super-tight, produced product.

When would I not want that?


Evaluate the situation and go with the situation that makes the most sense for the project. [GONG]

- Justin
RecordingQuestions.com[/QUOTE]

 

[LToro]

80's click dingk dingk dingk dounk ... don't like those, how about soft tambourines shakers that blend more with melodies etc

 

[darrin_h2000]

I wonder how many have kept in the click track...like "Ramble On" by Led Zeppelin.