the way it is

Well, I admit, Pipe, I was oversimplifying a complex issue in response to an even more oversimplified original premise by Sweetnutz.

But the main points are valid: almost EVERY industry is dealing with these exact same issues, especially service industries, and some are being hit even harder. Your accreditation idea might work - an example of that type of thing might be the Actor's Equity union. To get a "card" you need to accumulate qualifying points based on acting experience at various levels.

But I'm not sure just how much that would really affect things in the studio business. At the mid and lower levels, the main factors are still going to be:

• price: "if i record at the doghouse, i might be able to afford this cd without pimping my girlfriend..."

• convenience of location: no one wants to drive 100 miles and then start recording.

• word of mouth recommendation: "my friend numbnutz recorded here and said they had the best food of any studio he'd been in..."

• personality, speed, and skill of the engineer: is it a fun hang or an ordeal? Did the band have to wait around for six hours while the engineer got the "right" snare sound?

• vibe of the room: "i was so relaxed, i forgot i was in a studio..."

• historical body of work: "jeep and the wascals made their first three CD's here, and they ROCKED!"

•acoustics, room size, special instruments: hard to record a choir in a vocal booth. Or classical piano on a Kurzweil.

• amenities: food, drink, convenient clean bathroom, places to relax, ocean or mountain views, pinball, cute dog, hot girlfriend, etc.

• monitoring: comfortable headphones, individual cue mixes, ease of communication with other musicians (line of sight) and the engineer.

• recording gear: less important than you might think to the average client who wouldn't know their API from their elbow. But compatable recording platforms are important in allowing projects started elsewhere to be continued at your place. And whatever gear is available must be well maintained and able to be implemented quickly and efficiently. The worst four letter expletive an engineer can utter in front of the client is: "oops!"

Whether accreditation would factor in high on the list remains to be seen. It's an interesting idea, though.
 
sweetnubs said:
son of mixerman: i did not say a recording degree was necessary, i just think before anyone is allowed to buy recording equipment they should have to flash their recording engineers licsence that they received through a certification test. you don't need to go to school, ....
Click to expand...
Your right, but I believe the inference was there. In fact most Studio's prefer interns newbies verses certified knowitalls. The probelm comes to certification, who dictates the criteria in a feild which is highly subjective? There also specialties like tracking and mixing where a different certification might be needed.


sweetnubs said:

... ever record classical and jazz musicians? it actually makes recording fun.
Click to expand...
Yup, still do, Always will.


sweetnubs said:

you cannot master at home. i cannot master at my studio. i don't even presume to be skilled at mastering. mastering engineers can master and that's it, no ifs ands or buts.
Click to expand...
Roger Nicols does? I have, and probably will again sometime next year. Then again its one of my responsibilites.


sweetnubs said:

come children, gather around the feet of sweetnubs.
Click to expand...
Why? Are your shoes needing some tying of the laces?

Your assumption is that all the people here are incompetent wannabe's with 4 tracks. There are in fact people here who are highly experienced professionals who come here to offer insight, education, guidance etc to the ones who care about getting better. It is about the music, not the equipment.

As for me, I record at home because its my passion and I lost that passion when I had to deal with self centered arrogant people day in and day out, I packed all my stuff in 93 and only kept the 4 track around. But after discovering this place I got the fire going again, Im converting the garage and bringing out the gear. In fact Im gonna buy cheap gear to expand my collection. I might even buy a behringer mixer instead of the Alesis X2 :eek:
I still think accreditation isn't realistic, unless its through AES and they set it up, but its unlikely because of the subjectiveness. Go over to chessrocks snare micing thread and take a test on micing drums..Whew, you flunked! Ha ha...




Have a great day!

SoMm
 
Hey Son of Mixerman

Where can I get me one of them there 2" 24 trk 40 input API" thingys? Tain't never seed one uh them bufour. But now that I know that they is available I gots to git one so I can steal some more of sweetnut's bidness.
 
I can't understand why everyone is getting their panties in a wad over what this dude posted.

He has a right to his opinions, and if he thinks that most of the stuff we are using is crap . . . that all of our methods are crap and our very existance a sham, then so be it.

Most home-brewed stuff produced with the gear most of us are using doesn't produce the results of the higher-end stuff in major studios. There are some exceptions, yes, but why get bent out of shape over it one way or another? Who is this guy, and who even cares?
 
The only real difference between a high and mid level studio owner is the amount of credit they can get from the bank. Talent has little to do with the equation.

Success is about delivering a marketable product. More engineering talent and better equipment make that easier to do but do not guarantee anything.

If your business is failing it's always easy to blame your competition but you really need to look at your own business plan and see where you went wrong. If you can't support yourself then it's time to cut back on overhead. Welcome to the recession.

I'm not quite sure what the hell the point of this discussion is :confused:
 
Originally posted by sweetnubs
note to home recording freshmen:
you cannot master at home.
Click to expand...

Not yet.


OK everyone put down your hobbies and quit enjoying them cause if you ain't pro you are a sucker! :rolleyes:


Who in their right mind would go buy home recording gear and think that it is going to be played on MTV anyway. Most people don't purchase home recording gear to make a hit record, idiot.


Hey sweetnubs Kiss The Clown!
 
Last edited:
chessrock said:
I can't understand why everyone is getting their panties in a wad over what this dude posted.

He has a right to his opinions, and if he thinks that most of the stuff we are using is crap . . . that all of our methods are crap and our very existance a sham, then so be it.

Most home-brewed stuff produced with the gear most of us are using doesn't produce the results of the higher-end stuff in major studios. There are some exceptions, yes, but why get bent out of shape over it one way or another? Who is this guy, and who even cares?
Click to expand...

Its mostly because he came to the BBS with the intention of picking a fight. You can see from the products mentioned in his post that he had done a little research prior to starting the thread. Its true that it only an opinion, but when that opinions entire purpose is to invalidate all other opinions. Try going into a lesbianism BBS and start preaching. Kind of the samething to me. And your also right about not caring who the guy is. I think most of us realize that there is lots of room for everyone to exist from 4 track enthusiast to Grammy winning professionals. We exist and he doesn't like it. Oh well, back to the grind stone.


SoMm
 
i see lots of name calling and not addressing me by the more proper and respectful name sweetnubs, indeed they are the sweetest nubs of all. lots of namecalling but no refuting my points with actual facts and logic that indicate experience and knowledge in the recording field. sweetnubs does not lie but tells you the truth to deliver you away from the light, away from the warm soft light of mid fi "toob" gear.

sweetnubs likes home recording as a hobby and addressing himself in the third person. what he doesn't like is home recordist who try to pass themselves off as professional studios. there are so many studios around me that are nothing more than home recording project studios with a sign on the door. and they charge professional rates. it is unfair to professionals (hence the certified studio idea) and it is unfair to musicians. we spend years learning our craft and some numnut with a subscription to home recording thinks he has a studio. the problem is a naive musician will be impressed by all the pretty lights and won't find out how much these people suck until he/she has paid through the nose only to get a shitty product. this only perpetuates home studios because then the musician thinks to theirself, "christ i could do this without a studio" and they probably could because the so-called "engineer" is really as inexperienced as they are.

ns10's hurt my ears too, but anything mixed on them always translates. that's why a large majority of professionals mix on them. they only go down to about 70 hz, too. i have a subwoofer but only turn it on to impress the client with my phat bass bro (idiots) and do a check for home systems that may have a subwoofer. studer=yummy. api=yummy. oh yeah i forgot to mention, mackie sucks too.

people mention i don't ever help but i did tell people to look up the word "phase" also look up "directional characteristic" or maybe "pick-up pattern". "unity gain" is a nice one too. note: dynamic processing cannot be put into the aux/sends returns. i did a consulting job a while ago and some dumbass had his compressors in the aux sends/returns then told me how he couldn't hear the compression and that how it is a waste if you can't hear it. jeez. . . (with an attitude no less) note: you cannot return the "wet" portion of dynamic processing because it simply adds all the dynamics you just altered back into the mix. there, sweetnubs helped.

yeah, so i said "mogami" microphone but that's what the damn thing had printed on it and i was confused too. turns out it was a marshall or something. i plugged it in and it freakin' sucked. i sold it to some dumbass for twice what i paid for it. just like the re-20 i bought the other day, i only bought it 'cause i know i could resell it for more than i paid for it for its "vintage" value. the only thing those are good for is cleaning out your colon after a pretty hefty burrito. it's just the right size too and i should know because i'm one gay motherfucker . that is dedicated to you track rat because you are an obvious bigot with your constant referrals to gay porn and lesbianism. i'm not suprised with you being from missouri and all. your probably a bush-loving flag-waving redneck patriot who has no idea that america has caused all of the recent problems and is finally reaping what it sowed.

also note that rarely do any trade magazines give bad reviews. check one of them out sometime and count the number of bad gear reviews you see in an issue of home recording, electronic musician, eq, recording, etc. more often than not it is zero. everything is just jim-dandy johnny. this is supported by professionals because they get kickbacks for endorsing, and trade magazines because they can sell more advertising space. it's just big coporate business as usual. "the rode nt-1 compares favorablely to large diaphgragm condensers that cost 10x as much" jeez . . . i decided i am going to make a t-shirt that says:

"_________" compares favorable to neumann.

get it: you can fill in the blank just like any other trade magazine. now i know that is some funny shit.

i can't stand indie rock not so much because of the music but because of the dimwitted facination with low-fi. kids, your favortite indie band had a large production budget and did not record the entire drum kit with one microphone through a into a "toob" preamp into a 1/4" fostex. i hate it because i get all these dumbass indie kids coming saying how lowfi they are. "you got tube gear?" why the hell come to me? get a four track cassette deck. ps. you can make tastefully unpolished recordings much easier with high end gear. on the flip side: hip-hoppers think pro-tools is the shiznit. "bro, you got pro-tools" "pro-tools is da bomb and shit" ignorance, losing business to someone because you don't have pro-tools. christ if i have to go digital i prefer logic or digital perforer throgh prism converters anways. don't even get me going on macs. . .

jesus i have to go back to work now . . . .
 
You know Littledog, I just realized you're right. He's a kid that trolled in to yank out collective chain. Jeez, suckered again.
 
You use NS-10s with a sub as your client impressers? I thought you were trying to imply you had a real studio. When I had to impress a client, I always went for the sofits or the Genelec 1036a's. I thought you were just a bitter engineer, but I guess you are just bitter.

NS-10s are massively misunderstood. Very few great engineers used them for tracking. They were great for mixing, if you can get over the head splitting headaches. The problem is they do not have all that great of detail, not compared to modern speakers. When tracking, you want detail. When mixing you want the mix to translate. Mix compatibility is more of a factor of experience and familiarity with monitors than the monitors themselves.

Pretty much all of the well known mixers in the world today are using Genelec 1031a's for nearfield monitors, which are so much better than NS-10s as to make the NS-10s a joke. The 1031s are better than my Mackies, but not enough for me to justify spending double the money. The Mackies blow NS-10s out of the water, for me. And the bass response is good enough, and the frequency response is flat enough that I can track with them with good result. I just have to watch out for the slow transient response.

As far as tube stuff, I have to admit that all the low cost tube mic pres suck, to my ear. The problem is that they are based on starved plate deigns. That means that the tubes are starved of voltage, which reduces there dynamic range, making them distort at very low levels. Many people mistake that distortion for "tube" warmth. That generally lasts until they hear a great tube preamp, running the tubes (plural, you notice, unlike the cheap ones) at a proper voltage. I miss the D.W. Fern VT-1 mic pre I used to use more than any single piece of gear for vocal work. Please do not confuse great tube gear for cheap tube gear, because they can not be compared.

By the way, do you REALLY think that reissues can compare with old gear? The components for a lot of that stuff just do not exist anymore. Have you tried to find the proper inductors for a Pultec recently? Or the proper transformers for a Neve 1073? You may find some NOS (new old stock), but good luck finding enough for a production run.

Hey, did I show enough technical understanding to for you?

Still having fun with MY studio.

Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
I be a Home Recording person who does it because it's fun. I have really great gear because the guy at Musician's Friend told me that Mutt Lange uses the same things that I do. I thought he was a baseball player with a great home studio, but he assured me he's really famous.
I can also buy more great gear at the Guitar Center if I want, and I can meet others like me who enjoy trying to record themselves at home. But there be some things that I dont know, so please help me out here:

Who is this neumann of whom you speak?

What are NS-10s? (Is it like NCC 1700?)

What is 'toob'?

What is Pro Tools?

Who is Studer?

What is a troll?

foo
 
Son of Mixerman said:


And what makes you qualified? Are you an engineer with your PE?

Click to expand...

I passed the Fundamentals of Engineering exam (formerly the Engineer in Training exam). Does that put me a step above a hacker?

:p
 
Who is this neumann of whom you speak?
Click to expand...
Alfred E. Neumann. Mad Magazine

What are NS-10s? (Is it like NCC 1700?)
Click to expand...
An NS- class shuttle. The 10 series were the smallest. Also produced were the 20 and 30 series.
Much like the Boeing B727 100, 200, and 300 Stretch series.

What is 'toob'?
Click to expand...
It's not a "What", it's a "Who", but the spelling starts with a "B"

What is Pro Tools?
Click to expand...
Snap-On and Craftsman. There are no others.

Who is Studer?
Click to expand...
Mr. Studer and Mr. Baker had an automobile manufacturing plant in the '50's and early '60's.

What is a troll?
Click to expand...
Read the first post of this thread. Or see answer three.
 
LOL @ Sennheiser


This thread is so amusing. Thanks to sugarnuts for the entertainment. :)

sweetnubs said:
yo track-rat: it's ok you're cutting into my business. i'll be getting paid to fix all of your shitty tracks. and i'll reap the benefits of buying your used gear once you sell it all off because you've realized you don't know what in the hell you are doing and sell it in a fit of frustration.
Click to expand...

That's funny. Go check out TrackRat's stuff in the MP3 clinic. He's hardly frustrated. ;)


Damn. I just realized that I'm not a professional cook. Better stop cooking and head to McDonalds to get some pro food.

Oops. Poor analogy. I'm a mediocre cook, but I'd better not open a diner because I can't cook a steak as well as Ruth Chris.


Whee. This is fun. :D
 
if you read my posts carefully you will see i said i mixed on ns10's not tracked on them. i mentioned the subs in relation to the low frequency response of ns10's and mixing for home systems with subs. i also turn on the sofit mounted "big uns" so the guitar player can hear his wanky solo in all its glory. i must amend my "mackie sucks" statement because i have never listened to their monitors, what it is the hr24's or something? (i don't always stay current with new gear because i pretty much have what i need and nothing better is really coming along) true, there are tons of monitors that are technically better than ns10's, but that doesn't necassarily make them good for me to mix on. ns10's translate, that's what matters. i know them well and that is perhaps the most important factor. plenty of well known engineers mix on ns10's and most studios are equipped with them which makes travelling easy. i have listened to genelecs and they aren't so bad. mackie mixers do suck though, even the db8.

yeah the worst part of "toob" gear is that they are not true tube amplification. there is generally a badly designed solid state gain stage first. basically it equals bad IM distortion from this stage and (bad)harmonic distortion mud from the tube stage.

i can't say reissues are necesarrily better, but they are definately better than "reissues" a la bombfactory which suck. the stuff is in the ballpark and you don't have to deal with all the headaches of older gear. i'm perfectly happy most of the time with the preamps on my mixer, go figure. remember back in the day when outboard preamps were more like a novelty?

tell the people on the pencil-trick thread to get a wire mesh pop filter. they don't get all stinky and you can wash them easily. sweetnubs is feeling gentler now . . . p.s. track rat, i could love you in a way that only a man could love you.
 
Sorry oh nubby one. I'm not a pedophile. I don't do little girls & boys. So lets hear your material.
Better yet, go hang out at Pro Sound Web. I bet Fletcher would just LOVE you.
 
Who's Ta Blame?

sweetnubs said:
your probably a bush-loving flag-waving redneck patriot who has no idea that america has caused all of the recent problems and is finally reaping what it sowed.
Click to expand...

So now the blame goes to a country? Who's next to blame?

A lot of finger-pointing going-on from one guy. Must be a higher being than the rest of us...
 
go figure: the good old US of A trained the taliban and supplied arms to the general afganhistan populace to overthrow the russians. many people did not want to do this (in afganhistan) and we promised them that we would help them recoup their losses, i.e. funding for rebuilding the country, new schools, etc. but instead, after they were succesful, we immediately pulled out. go figure people are pissed. the same thing occured with iran/iraq. the us is only an imperialistic country that cares about its interests. look at nicaruaga, panama, east timoor etc., i for one am currently considering moving to europe. christ in germany if a 3rd party receives 10 percent of the vote, they get 10 percent of the representives. it's a true representative democracy unlike our two party bullshit aristocracy. and their gear is better. kids, it really is about oil and securing natural resources. america is full of ego and highly lacking in education and empathy outside of its tiny hollywood corporate borders. learn about who owns the media you read. yes boys and girls, mean spirited sweetnubs is a liberal. please don't confuse me with a democrat who i consider only moderate republicans.

what in the hell? someone said something about how i should go and listen to the mp3 section to decide what gear actually sucks. jesus h. christ on a popsicle stick. mp freakin' 3. as if 16/44.1 wasn't bad enough, i'm supposed to judge audio quality from compressed digital. at least give me dvd 24/96 for christ's sake. might as well bring back the god-awful casette then. (i tried to take the lord's name in vain as many times as possible for all you religious nuts that cause a good majority of the worlds problems.
i might be going to hell, but it will be more fun than being blissfully satisified and happy which only sounds like a metaphor for heroine to me.)

sweetnubs is sweet on all y'all . . .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top